From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Sam Steingold Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: utf-8 cut/paste Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:41:09 -0400 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <9003-Tue25May2004080243+0300-eliz@gnu.org> <9743-Tue25May2004143607+0300-eliz@gnu.org> Reply-To: sds@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1085547336 22513 80.91.224.253 (26 May 2004 04:55:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 04:55:36 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Benjamin Riefenstahl , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Wed May 26 06:55:27 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BSqRr-0004cX-00 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 06:55:27 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BSqRq-0000ix-00 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 06:55:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BSoty-0005K1-Q8 for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Tue, 25 May 2004 23:16:22 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.34) id 1BSoB4-0006iv-St for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 May 2004 22:29:58 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.34) id 1BSnrh-0003RJ-1I for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 May 2004 22:10:37 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.41.8] (helo=mx20.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.34) id 1BSmfM-0007bC-5Z; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:53:08 -0400 Original-Received: from [198.112.236.6] (helo=alphatech.com) by mx20.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BSeEx-0001Pm-2h; Tue, 25 May 2004 11:53:24 -0400 Original-Received: from WINSTEINGOLDLAP ([10.0.64.31]) by alphatech.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PFfEYT012753; Tue, 25 May 2004 11:41:14 -0400 (EDT) Original-To: Eli Zaretskii X-Attribution: Sam X-Disclaimer: You should not expect anyone to agree with me. Mail-Copies-To: never In-Reply-To: <9743-Tue25May2004143607+0300-eliz@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 25 May 2004 14:36:07 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.1003 (Gnus v5.10.3) Emacs/21.3.50 (windows-nt) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:23948 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:23948 > * Eli Zaretskii [2004-05-25 14:36:07 +0200]: > > No, it doesn't. My comment was a minor one, to help Sam avoid > possible confusion in the future. I am sorry, you lost me long ago (when MULE was merged into Emacs). I understand what a CHARACTER is (a type in CL). E.g., #\C is a "LATIN CAPITAL LETTER C", or #\=D0=A1 is a "CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER ES" (even through they might look similar in your font). I understand that there are many (partial) function between (subsets of) (INTEGER 0) and CHARACTER, called "encodings". I don't know what a "charset" is, but I would guess that it is a subset of CHARACTERs on which a particular encoding is defined. I seem to recall that MULE considers characters as elements of these charsets, not as elements of the class CHARACTER, i.e., each character comes equipped with its integer encoding, and 2 characters which are identical elements of CHARACTER, but appear in two different encodings (e.g., #\=D0=A6 encoded in koi8 and in alt) are different characters in MUL= E. This is so absurd that I can hardly believe that anyone could ever conceive of this, let alone implement it. This reminds me of a story (): The Soviet space capsule of the 60-ies, Soyuz, was supposed to have been made from titanium, but the titanium turned out to be too hard to process, so it was made of a heavier aluminum alloy. This violated the mass properties and thus aerodynamic stability of the craft. There was no time to re-design everything (Moon race!), so the stability was restored by adding a 150 kilogram lead dead-weight to the construction. (only Soyuz-TMA in the early 2000 got rid of this thing!) I hope it will take Emacs less than 30 years to get rid of the MULE dead-weight. --=20 Sam Steingold (http://www.podval.org/~sds) running w2k Save your burned out bulbs for me, I'm building my own dark room.