From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Oliver Scholz Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: enriched-mode and switching major modes. Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:00:08 +0200 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <200409042358.i84Nwjt19152@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <87llfn5ihw.fsf@emacswiki.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1095678057 6248 80.91.229.6 (20 Sep 2004 11:00:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:00:57 +0000 (UTC) Cc: bob@rattlesnake.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 20 13:00:47 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1C9LuZ-0007lE-00 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:00:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1C9M0R-0007qs-Ia for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:06:51 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1C9M0I-0007qn-T7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:06:42 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1C9M0H-0007pm-71 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:06:42 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1C9M0H-0007pS-4Z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:06:41 -0400 Original-Received: from [213.165.64.20] (helo=mail.gmx.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1C9Lu9-0002cs-CC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:00:21 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 28067 invoked by uid 65534); 20 Sep 2004 11:00:09 -0000 Original-Received: from dsl-082-083-129-246.arcor-ip.net (EHLO USER-2MOEN8BWBA.gmx.de) (82.83.129.246) by mail.gmx.net (mp012) with SMTP; 20 Sep 2004 13:00:09 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1497658 Original-To: Stefan In-Reply-To: (Stefan's message of "Mon, 20 Sep 2004 01:49:22 -0400") X-Attribution: os X-Face: "HgH2sgK|bfH$; PiOJI6|qUCf.ve<51_Od(%ynHr?=>znn#~#oS>",F%B8&\vus),2AsPYb -n>PgddtGEn}s7kH?7kH{P_~vu?]OvVN^qD(L)>G^gDCl(U9n{:d>'DkilN!_K"eNzjrtI4Ya6; Td% IZGMbJ{lawG+'J>QXPZD&TwWU@^~A}f^zAb[Ru;CT(UA]c& User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) Emacs/21.3.50 (windows-nt) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:27315 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:27315 Stefan writes: > [ Note; I'm pretty happy with Emacs's current word-processing facilities > right now and don't see any need for it to develop into yet-another > WYSIWYG thingy [...] I don't talk about WYSIWYG. I abhor the very concept of it in the context of word processing. "WYSIWYG" means to say something about the relationship between the rendering of the document on screen and on printed paper. We can't have that in Emacs. It would mean that if Emacs is started on, say the linux tty, we would have to print the document in light gray on black in a font which looks like the linux console font. It would mean that the printed output would look different when I start Emacs on a character console, a terminal emulator or on the GUI. Traditional word processors are conceptually ambigous here. WYSIWYG makes sense only for DTP, where you specify the exact position of text on the paper. I believe that "WYSIWYG" is a relic of the times when "ordinary people" did not trust computers and tried to look at them as a special kind of typewriter. Nowadays there are other buzzwords to make up for the initial confusion: "paperless office", "e-document exchange" and the like. [...] > the deep representation (which, AFAIC, is not "just the disk format" > but is the format where I can expresss my *intents*, i.e. where I > can distinguish between two concepts even if they happen to be > rendered identically on the currently used output mode) [...] Yes, that's a different editing model. Just as I said to Robert Chassel: some people would prefer an editing model, where the "deep representation" is more than just the encoding of the abstract document as frozen on disc. Oliver -- Oliver Scholz Jour des Récompenses de l'Année 212 de la Révolution Ostendstr. 61 Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité! 60314 Frankfurt a. M.