From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What a modern collaboration toolkit looks like Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 22:57:33 +0200 Message-ID: References: <20071230122217.3CA84830B9A@snark.thyrsus.com> <20071231130712.GB8641@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1199134692 16380 80.91.229.12 (31 Dec 2007 20:58:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 20:58:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: esr@snark.thyrsus.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: esr@thyrsus.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 31 21:58:25 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1J9RiK-0000Gh-TQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 21:58:25 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Rhz-0006Wo-4t for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 15:58:03 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1J9RhZ-0006LV-8p for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 15:57:37 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1J9RhX-0006K5-Nh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 15:57:36 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9RhX-0006Jw-Ip for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 15:57:35 -0500 Original-Received: from heller.inter.net.il ([213.8.233.23]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1J9RhX-0003Ny-2Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 15:57:35 -0500 Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 (IGLD-80-230-151-214.inter.net.il [80.230.151.214]) by heller.inter.net.il (MOS 3.7.3a-GA) with ESMTP id ENB09681 (AUTH halo1); Mon, 31 Dec 2007 22:57:31 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <20071231130712.GB8641@thyrsus.com> (esr@thyrsus.com) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: FreeBSD 4.7-5.2 (or MacOS X 10.2-10.4) (2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:85757 Archived-At: > Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 08:07:12 -0500 > From: "Eric S. Raymond" > Cc: "Eric S. Raymond" , emacs-devel@gnu.org > > Eli Zaretskii : > > > This is a typical modern open-source project. It's not even a > > > particularly large one -- no more than a dozen core devs, 58 > > > developers total. > > > > A striking difference with Emacs. We never had such a large group of > > active developers. > > Really? How interesting. Makes me proportionately more important to > Emacs than I thought I was. :-) I knew there was a compliment there somewhere... > The old-timers on this list should be asking themselves why, when Emacs > is so undeniably important, it can't attract as many developers as a > mere fantasy game. That's not a question for me. It's quite clear to me why programming a game would be more fun than programming a text editor. And if you are hinting that using CVS is the reason, then I must say that in the 15 years I've been involved in Emacs development (using RCS at first, btw), I don't think I've ever heard some potential contributor say that she refuses to come on board because of the VCS we use. Maybe my memory is failing me, who knows. > The Emacs project, though, is still operating at a scale and tempo I > think of as being typical of the late 1980s and early 1990s. I think > we are limited by poor tools, and by habits of thought derived from > those poor tools. My analysis is different: I think we are limited by a small number of core developers, and by the lack of head maintainer(s) who could devote much more time than any of us can evidently provide to coding and leading the rest of the developers.