From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Masterson Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gtk version getting closer Date: 14 Nov 2002 12:22:19 -0800 Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1037306350 12047 80.91.224.249 (14 Nov 2002 20:39:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 20:39:10 +0000 (UTC) Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18CQlU-00037e-00 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:39:04 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 18CQy1-0007sk-00 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:52:01 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CQju-00074x-00; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:37:26 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 18CQW4-0003ZB-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:23:08 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 18CQVy-0003Vs-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:23:06 -0500 Original-Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.224.249]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CQVx-0003Uu-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:23:01 -0500 Original-Received: from list by main.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18CQUF-0001l1-00 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:21:15 +0100 Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Received: from news by main.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18CQTb-0001hB-00 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:20:35 +0100 Original-Path: not-for-mail Original-Lines: 58 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: dhcp-146-225-32-177.synopsys.com Original-X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1037305235 6518 146.225.32.177 (14 Nov 2002 20:20:35 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 20:20:35 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1 Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:9426 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:9426 >>>>> Jan D writes: > onsdagen den 13 november 2002 kl 18.09 skrev David Masterson: >>>>>>> Karl Eichwalder writes: >>> Richard Stallman writes: >>>> Could you explain what is disturbing about it? Then I can think >>>> about the issue. >>> Tooltips are popping up and hiding other info. As somebody else >>> explained, for menu entries tooltips are not that important, >>> because menu texts are better to understand than tool bar icons. >> If tooltips are active, they tend to pop up on their own. This can >> be disconcerting for menus, but perhaps that's because I'm slightly >> more used to the MS-Windows approach. In that case, tooltips for >> menus only popup if you use the "What's this?" command (Shift-F1). >> This "What's this?" command can be applied to any widget on the >> screen (but not every widget answers it). >> Perhaps you want to think about this approach for menu tooltips? > This sounds good. As pointed out, C-h k is (almost) Emacs version > of "What's this?". Could C-h k be bent to show a tooltip when > invoked on a menu or toolbar item? > How does MS Windows handle the menu when doing this? Do you first > select "What's this?" and then the menu item? Or is it the menu > item first and "What's this?" afterwards? If the first, is the menu > still open when the tooltip is shown? You first select "What's this?" if it's available (not always provided and sometimes it's a simple "?" next to the window's minimize button). Then you select the "leaf" menu item of interest (ie. menus with submenus don't trigger the "What's this?"). The menu remains open during and after the tooltip is shown. I'm not sure that C-h k should be bent to showing tooltips as C-h k on a menu item already invokes describe-key and having two different styles of output for it might be confusing. In general, you want to make the tooltip simple to get to, but not constantly popping up in your way. My suggestion would be to make the first character of the menubar (or modeline?) a "?" which would serve as this "What's this?" button (the equivalent Emacs command can be pretty obscure). Menus generally aren't available in non-windows mode (correct?) and you don't need tooltips in non-windows mode (correct?), so, when the menu goes away, easy access to tooltips would also go away and this would be reasonable. Are tooltips reasonably applied to anything other than (the equivalent of) an XWindow widget (menu item, button, frame, etc.)? -- David Masterson David DOT Masterson AT synopsys DOT com Sr. R&D Engineer Synopsys, Inc. Software Engineering Sunnyvale, CA