* Windows Emacs and Screen Readers
@ 2005-01-20 6:49 Zachary
2005-01-20 22:10 ` Jason Rumney
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Zachary @ 2005-01-20 6:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
Hi,
I have had several annoyingly c issues with the Windows port of Emacs and my
screen reader program, both in console and graphical modes.
The problem with the console mode is that, at least apparently, the status
line is not displayed unless I use a keystroke like M-X, to force something
to be displayed in the echo area. This eliminates a useful source of
information for me.
In graphical mode, the problems are more obvious and annoying. They
manifest themselves from the moment Emacs starts up, I have no idea where my
cursor is, or if it is in fact reading me a correct bit of information.
The mouse movement hot keys of my screen reader work just fine, but that
doesn't help me with the cursor.
I'm wondering, essentially, if anyone has gotten Emacs for Windows, or
otherwise, to work using a screen reader, either through a telnet or SSH
session or through normal local operation.
Thanks for feedback,
Zack
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Windows Emacs and Screen Readers
2005-01-20 6:49 Windows Emacs and Screen Readers Zachary
@ 2005-01-20 22:10 ` Jason Rumney
2005-01-21 0:29 ` Zachary
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Jason Rumney @ 2005-01-20 22:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
"Zachary" <Z_kline@hotmail.com> writes:
> The problem with the console mode is that, at least apparently, the
> status line is not displayed unless I use a keystroke like M-X, to
> force something to be displayed in the echo area. This eliminates a
> useful source of information for me.
Console mode on MS-Windows is tuned for use through telnet by default,
because many years ago it was decided that was more useful (or perhaps
more difficult to recover from the inappropriate setting). To tune it
to run locally, add the following to your .emacs:
(setq w32-use-full-screen-buffer nil)
> In graphical mode, the problems are more obvious and annoying. They
> manifest themselves from the moment Emacs starts up, I have no idea
> where my cursor is, or if it is in fact reading me a correct bit of
> information.
This should be fixed in the development version of Emacs, which can be
obtained from cvs.gnu.org if you are able and willing to compile
yourself, or there are a couple of 6 month old snapshots precompiled
for Windows floating around (the Emacs wiki has links, I think).
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Windows Emacs and Screen Readers
2005-01-20 22:10 ` Jason Rumney
@ 2005-01-21 0:29 ` Zachary
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Zachary @ 2005-01-21 0:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
<jasonr (Jason Rumney) @ f2s.com> wrote in message
news:uis5r7nwi.fsf@jasonrumney.net...
> "Zachary" <Z_kline@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>> The problem with the console mode is that, at least apparently, the
>> status line is not displayed unless I use a keystroke like M-X, to
>> force something to be displayed in the echo area. This eliminates a
>> useful source of information for me.
>
> Console mode on MS-Windows is tuned for use through telnet by default,
> because many years ago it was decided that was more useful (or perhaps
> more difficult to recover from the inappropriate setting). To tune it
> to run locally, add the following to your .emacs:
>
> (setq w32-use-full-screen-buffer nil)
>
>
>> In graphical mode, the problems are more obvious and annoying. They
>> manifest themselves from the moment Emacs starts up, I have no idea
>> where my cursor is, or if it is in fact reading me a correct bit of
>> information.
>
> This should be fixed in the development version of Emacs, which can be
> obtained from cvs.gnu.org if you are able and willing to compile
> yourself, or there are a couple of 6 month old snapshots precompiled
> for Windows floating around (the Emacs wiki has links, I think).
>
Thanks for this useful information. I will be sure to try it and see if it
works.
Later,
Zack
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Windows Emacs and screen readers
@ 2005-06-28 21:55 Nikhil Nair
2005-06-28 22:17 ` Nick Roberts
2005-06-28 23:30 ` Jason Rumney
0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Nikhil Nair @ 2005-06-28 21:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
[I appreciate help-emacs-windows might have been the more proper place for
this question; however, the archives indicate that previous discussion on
the topic took place here.]
Hi,
I'm blind, and want to use emacs under Windows XP. I've tried different
versions (NT Emacs 21.3 both GUI and under cmd.exe, and Cygwin emacs 21.2,
which runs in console mode).
With the two console-mode versions, I had some terminal emulation issues
which stopped me using them fully, but those aren't emacs issues so I'll
leave them for now.
In the GUI version, I couldn't get JAWS (the screen reader I use - version
6.10) to recognise the cursor. I'd been told that JAWS needs a blinking
bar cursor, so used blinking-cursor.el from wonderworks.com together with
a setting for a bar cursor - but no luck. From a glance at w32term.c, I
got the impression that emacs draws the cursor graphically, but doesn't
use an ANSI character to represent the cursor, which I believe is what
JAWS needs.
However, I suspect I was reinventing the wheel, as I found some posts on
this list from 3 years ago which talked about the use of the system caret,
and JAWS working well with the GUI version; Ben Key of Freedom Scientific
(who develop JAWS) seemed quite happy with the results. What I couldn't
tell was whether this behaviour was in version 21.3, or whether I'd need a
later development version; or whether I need to put something specific in
my .emacs file (or on the command-line) in order to get this accessible
behaviour.
Could anyone give me a pointer or two?
Cheers,
Nikhil.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Windows Emacs and screen readers
2005-06-28 21:55 Windows Emacs and screen readers Nikhil Nair
@ 2005-06-28 22:17 ` Nick Roberts
2005-06-28 23:30 ` Jason Rumney
1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Nick Roberts @ 2005-06-28 22:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: emacs-devel
Nikhil Nair writes:
...
> I'm blind, and want to use emacs under Windows XP. I've tried different
> versions (NT Emacs 21.3 both GUI and under cmd.exe, and Cygwin emacs 21.2,
> which runs in console mode).
Perhaps Emacspeak is what you want:
Email: raman@cs.cornell.edu
WWW: http://emacspeak.sf.net/raman/
AIM: TVRaman
PGP: http://emacspeak.sf.net/raman/raman-almaden.asc
IRC: irc://irc.gnu.org/emacspeak
Even if it isn't exactly what you are looking for, I think T. V. Raman might
be able to answer your questions.
Nick
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Windows Emacs and screen readers
2005-06-28 21:55 Windows Emacs and screen readers Nikhil Nair
2005-06-28 22:17 ` Nick Roberts
@ 2005-06-28 23:30 ` Jason Rumney
2005-06-29 7:30 ` Emilio Lopes
1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Jason Rumney @ 2005-06-28 23:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: emacs-devel
Nikhil Nair <nnair@pobox.com> writes:
> However, I suspect I was reinventing the wheel, as I found some posts on
> this list from 3 years ago which talked about the use of the system caret,
> and JAWS working well with the GUI version; Ben Key of Freedom Scientific
> (who develop JAWS) seemed quite happy with the results. What I couldn't
> tell was whether this behaviour was in version 21.3, or whether I'd need a
> later development version;
You need the later development version. Although the first changes to
use the system caret were made in 2001, a few months before 21.1 was
released, it was too close to the release to make it into 21.1, and
subsequent releases have all been bugfix releases.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Windows Emacs and screen readers
2005-06-28 23:30 ` Jason Rumney
@ 2005-06-29 7:30 ` Emilio Lopes
2005-06-29 17:32 ` Nikhil Nair
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Emilio Lopes @ 2005-06-29 7:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
Jason Rumney <jasonr <at> gnu.org> writes:
>
> Nikhil Nair <nnair <at> pobox.com> writes:
>
> > However, I suspect I was reinventing the wheel, as I found some posts on
> > this list from 3 years ago which talked about the use of the system caret,
> > and JAWS working well with the GUI version; Ben Key of Freedom Scientific
> > (who develop JAWS) seemed quite happy with the results. What I couldn't
> > tell was whether this behaviour was in version 21.3, or whether I'd need a
> > later development version;
>
> You need the later development version. Although the first changes to
> use the system caret were made in 2001, a few months before 21.1 was
> released, it was too close to the release to make it into 21.1, and
> subsequent releases have all been bugfix releases.
>
Here is the documentation of the relevant user option:
w32-use-visible-system-caret's value is nil
Flag to make the system caret visible.
When this is non-nil, Emacs will indicate the position of point by
using the system caret instead of drawing its own cursor. Some screen
reader software does not track the system cursor properly when it is
invisible, and gets confused by Emacs drawing its own cursor, so this
variable is initialized to t when Emacs detects that screen reader
software is running as it starts up.
When this variable is set, other variables affecting the appearance of
the cursor have no effect.
Defined in `C source code'.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Windows Emacs and screen readers
2005-06-29 7:30 ` Emilio Lopes
@ 2005-06-29 17:32 ` Nikhil Nair
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Nikhil Nair @ 2005-06-29 17:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005, Emilio Lopes wrote:
> Jason Rumney <jasonr <at> gnu.org> writes:
>
> > [...]
> > You need the later development version. Although the first changes to
> > use the system caret were made in 2001, a few months before 21.1 was
> > released, it was too close to the release to make it into 21.1, and
> > subsequent releases have all been bugfix releases.
> >
>
> Here is the documentation of the relevant user option:
>
> w32-use-visible-system-caret's value is nil
>
> Flag to make the system caret visible.
> When this is non-nil, Emacs will indicate the position of point by
> using the system caret instead of drawing its own cursor. Some screen
> reader software does not track the system cursor properly when it is
> invisible, and gets confused by Emacs drawing its own cursor, so this
> variable is initialized to t when Emacs detects that screen reader
> software is running as it starts up.
>
> When this variable is set, other variables affecting the appearance of
> the cursor have no effect.
>
> Defined in `C source code'.
Thanks to both of you for these helpful comments, and to Lennart Borgman
who pointed me to the precompiled version at
http://ourcomments.org/Emacs/EmacsW32.html .
I've just tried to install the development version I found there, on XP
SP2 (non-admin account), keeping all of the defaults except the
installation directory, which I put in my user account's filespace. It
seemed to install, but then wouldn't run; I get:
---------------------------
C:\Documents and Settings\nnair\Emacs\setup\bin\gnuclientw.exe
---------------------------
Could not start runemacs --load="C:/Documents and Settings/nnair/Emacs/setup/bin/gnuservauto.el"
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------
(the above is the result of cutting from a message box with C-c.)
Any hints appreciated. I did the installation from an unprivileged
account, but since the option it gave me was to do a full installation
except anything requiring privileged access, I presumed this would be
fine.
Cheers,
Nikhil.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2005-06-29 17:32 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2005-01-20 6:49 Windows Emacs and Screen Readers Zachary
2005-01-20 22:10 ` Jason Rumney
2005-01-21 0:29 ` Zachary
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2005-06-28 21:55 Windows Emacs and screen readers Nikhil Nair
2005-06-28 22:17 ` Nick Roberts
2005-06-28 23:30 ` Jason Rumney
2005-06-29 7:30 ` Emilio Lopes
2005-06-29 17:32 ` Nikhil Nair
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