From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: File menu changes (suggestions) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:37:03 +0200 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1119297308 10329 80.91.229.2 (20 Jun 2005 19:55:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:55:08 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jun 20 21:54:57 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DkSKc-0005tR-DQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:53:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DkSQt-0006vk-Qf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 15:59:47 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DkSOg-0005sE-32 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 15:57:30 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DkSOZ-0005ou-Ai for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 15:57:25 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DkSOY-0005hD-G4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 15:57:22 -0400 Original-Received: from [192.114.186.24] (helo=legolas.inter.net.il) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DkS83-0005qD-Qb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 15:40:20 -0400 Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 (IGLD-80-230-44-230.inter.net.il [80.230.44.230]) by legolas.inter.net.il (MOS 3.5.8-GR) with ESMTP id ERB25905 (AUTH halo1); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:37:07 +0300 (IDT) Original-To: "Drew Adams" In-reply-to: X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:39197 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:39197 > From: "Drew Adams" > Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 09:53:13 -0700 > > We refer to the buffer on purpose: we want users to see Emacs > terminology even in the menus, and even when the menus are following > established UI guidelines and use standard entries like "New" and > "Close". > > Why then do we use Paste instead of Yank? It's not the same: "buffer" is _in_addition_ to "Save" etc., not _instead_ of them. > Menu-item names can serve as a bridge between terms that newbies are used to > and Emacs terminology. Exactly: thus "Save Buffer As" includes both the familiar "Save As" and the reference to "buffer". > > a. Currently, there is an inconsistency wrt "Buffer" and > "(current buffer)". > > That's not an inconsistency: in the first case, "Buffer" is part of > the command name; in the second, it's a minor comment about the > command's operation. > > 1. "Save Buffer As" runs command `write-file'. Where's the beef - er - > "buffer"? > 2. "Save (current buffer)" runs command `save-buffer'. > 3. "Close (current buffer)" runs command `kill-this-buffer'. > 4. "Revert Buffer" runs command `revert-buffer'. Wed are miscommunicating: I didn't mean the name of the Lisp function, I meant the command name that appears in the menu. > - The command name is irrelevant here. I disagree. > - A minor comment about a command's operation belongs perhaps in a tooltip > or help, but not in the name of the menu item itself. There were a lot of iterations about this, the current situation was a compromise between what different people wanted. Let's not go there again. > > New is better than New File (but see 3, below). > > No, it is not better, since it doesn't say what new entity is created. > Other GUI programs have a submenu there or work only with one type of > entities (or just leave it vague, which we didn't want to do). > > So "New File" says that a new file is created? Yes, it says that, but it > tells not the truth: no file is created by this operation. A lone "New" isn't better. I think we didn't find a better alternative. > > 5. Move all of the window and frame stuff to a new menu, "Frames". > > Not good: we have a crammed menu bar already, adding more top-level > items would only make things worse with no real advantage. > > Agreed. But 1) this stuff has little to do with "File"; 2) use of a > "Windows" menu, having a similar purpose, is common in other apps; Richard didn't want that, since in Emacs, `window' means something different. > Another possible renaming I forgot to mention is "Split Window". The window > is not split to result in a single window with a divider. "New Window" would > be a better name for this menu item. I think other applications use the same name. Perhaps just "Split" would be better, I don't know.