From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: What does 'run' do in cperl-mode? Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 22:33:23 +0300 Message-ID: References: <0ded5ecd-f5f6-4a8e-9d19-f61bf0401022@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com> <86hcad9ar4.fsf@lifelogs.com> <0bb45e96-f9f3-4451-a457-004bb5930c76@p10g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <927b0c4a-3de2-4be5-b86a-7ffacc4d718e@v1g2000pra.googlegroups.com> <88821130-f989-49ac-b8b1-e3cb2f5c5271@1g2000pre.googlegroups.com> <880cfe65-c525-46f7-a2e7-f76aa1168015@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1217360101 28921 80.91.229.12 (29 Jul 2008 19:35:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:35:01 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 29 21:35:50 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KNuz3-0001TM-Lx for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 21:35:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39806 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KNuy9-0007Uz-Eo for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 15:34:49 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KNuxO-000704-Bn for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 15:34:02 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KNuxN-0006yZ-7K for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 15:34:01 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=39297 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KNuxM-0006y9-W3 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 15:34:01 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout5.012.net.il ([84.95.2.13]:14771) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KNuxM-0003MP-Lt for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 15:34:00 -0400 Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.229.228.238]) by i_mtaout5.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2004.12) with ESMTPA id <0K4S00JAW8ZUNPQ2@i_mtaout5.012.net.il> for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 22:33:30 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <880cfe65-c525-46f7-a2e7-f76aa1168015@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 9.1 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:56034 Archived-At: > From: Xah > Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 00:25:21 -0700 (PDT) >=20 > On Jul 28, 8:32 pm, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > From:XahLee > > > Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 15:54:35 -0700 (PDT) > > > > > After all, many emacs developers read here i was told. > > > > Most of them don't, actually. Whoever told you otherwise was wro= ng. >=20 >=20 > thanks for setting this correct. >=20 > ... wait, but it was you who told me so here few months back i thin= k. Can't be, you are either confusing me with someone else, or you misunderstood what I said back then. > Remember, in my article >=20 > =E2=80=9CEmacs's M-=E2=80=B9key=E2=80=BA Notation vs Alt+=E2=80= =B9key=E2=80=BA Notation=E2=80=9D > http://xahlee.org/emacs/modernization_meta_key.html >=20 > The main reasons i gave are: >=20 > =E2=80=A2 Universally understood So is Meta. > =E2=80=A2 Identical To Key's Label Only on some keyboards. > =E2=80=A2 Meta is Alt in practice Only on some keyboards. > =E2=80=A2 Keyboards don't have Meta key today Yes, they do, at least some of them. > So i consider it more as bug report now i think about it. Why? Beca= use > emacs failed to update itself when its keyboard under lisp machines > become obsolete. You have your history wrong: Meta came from old Sun keyboards, where it was marked with a diamond. > As i mentioned, the computing industry changes relative fast. So is Emacs. There are hundreds of lines of code that get committed each day into the Emacs repository. > Oh, another point i wanted to make before, was that OpenSource > software often takes a 5 to 10 years lag of adopting features from = the > commercial wold. With Emacs, it's actually the other way around: it got many features waaay before the rest of the world. > Syntax coloring, for example, i think by 1995 is in every commercia= l > software. (when did it came to emacs?) In July 1993. > Mouse support... 1985 > Font ... Hard to tell, but looks like 1992 at the latest (I'm quite sure it wa= s much earlier, but cannot find evidence in the few free moments I have now). > Unicode ... 2000 > GUI support ... 1985 > I'm actually don't have solid historical facts for the above points= as > i liked... Oh, but you should, perhaps. Then you might see that some of your opinions have no factual basis at all, as far as Emacs is concerned. > but anyway i just want to write instead of like doing 10 > years of research and post 1 article and got overflooded. No need for that: I looked up the above in less than a minute of grepping Emacs ChangeLog files. > So back to emacs.... there was CUA mode. I don't know the history o= f > the mode, but it is my guess that mode has been floating out there = for > quite some time before it is part of emacs. I think there must be h= uge > resistance back then, even today, the use of it is somewhat > controversial, and geekers are shy to admit they use it because tha= t > somehow makes them =E2=80=9CMicrosoft Kiddies=E2=80=9D. You are wrong. As long as a mode is optional, there's normally no resistance at all (assuming that it's written cleanly and according t= o Emacs coding style and standards). > The other point is that if you research the adaption of GUI feature= s > or practices in commercial and free software world, you'll see that > the free camp is rather slow in 5 to 10 years. Like I said: get your history right first, then I will perhaps consider taking seriously your claims. For now, it's just bla-bla that's not based on anything except itself. > Emacs in fact is a good example. Nobody uses it. Yeah, right. That'd be a very LARGE nobody. > lol. Same here. > alright, i typed fast. this post is maybe 50 min but now it flies o= ut > sans cleanup. I have written much better about all these points > actually, but citing my website gets tired and ignored. Better answ= er > question on person to person basis, is what am trying to do. I hope the ratio of your lines to mine will not be so large next time= , though, or else I'd need to cut my losses and stop. I will never hav= e enough time even to read everything you managed to dump on me in response to just 11 lines.