From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: What does 'run' do in cperl-mode?
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 22:33:23 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <uej5cpjss.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <880cfe65-c525-46f7-a2e7-f76aa1168015@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
> From: Xah <xahlee@gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 00:25:21 -0700 (PDT)
>
> On Jul 28, 8:32 pm, Eli Zaretskii <e...@gnu.org> wrote:
> > > From:XahLee<x...@xahlee.org>
> > > Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 15:54:35 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> > > After all, many emacs developers read here i was told.
> >
> > Most of them don't, actually. Whoever told you otherwise was wrong.
>
>
> thanks for setting this correct.
>
> ... wait, but it was you who told me so here few months back i think.
Can't be, you are either confusing me with someone else, or you
misunderstood what I said back then.
> Remember, in my article
>
> “Emacs's M-‹key› Notation vs Alt+‹key› Notation”
> http://xahlee.org/emacs/modernization_meta_key.html
>
> The main reasons i gave are:
>
> • Universally understood
So is Meta.
> • Identical To Key's Label
Only on some keyboards.
> • Meta is Alt in practice
Only on some keyboards.
> • Keyboards don't have Meta key today
Yes, they do, at least some of them.
> So i consider it more as bug report now i think about it. Why? Because
> emacs failed to update itself when its keyboard under lisp machines
> become obsolete.
You have your history wrong: Meta came from old Sun keyboards, where
it was marked with a diamond.
> As i mentioned, the computing industry changes relative fast.
So is Emacs. There are hundreds of lines of code that get committed
each day into the Emacs repository.
> Oh, another point i wanted to make before, was that OpenSource
> software often takes a 5 to 10 years lag of adopting features from the
> commercial wold.
With Emacs, it's actually the other way around: it got many features
waaay before the rest of the world.
> Syntax coloring, for example, i think by 1995 is in every commercial
> software. (when did it came to emacs?)
In July 1993.
> Mouse support...
1985
> Font ...
Hard to tell, but looks like 1992 at the latest (I'm quite sure it was
much earlier, but cannot find evidence in the few free moments I have
now).
> Unicode ...
2000
> GUI support ...
1985
> I'm actually don't have solid historical facts for the above points as
> i liked...
Oh, but you should, perhaps. Then you might see that some of your
opinions have no factual basis at all, as far as Emacs is concerned.
> but anyway i just want to write instead of like doing 10
> years of research and post 1 article and got overflooded.
No need for that: I looked up the above in less than a minute of
grepping Emacs ChangeLog files.
> So back to emacs.... there was CUA mode. I don't know the history of
> the mode, but it is my guess that mode has been floating out there for
> quite some time before it is part of emacs. I think there must be huge
> resistance back then, even today, the use of it is somewhat
> controversial, and geekers are shy to admit they use it because that
> somehow makes them “Microsoft Kiddies”.
You are wrong. As long as a mode is optional, there's normally no
resistance at all (assuming that it's written cleanly and according to
Emacs coding style and standards).
> The other point is that if you research the adaption of GUI features
> or practices in commercial and free software world, you'll see that
> the free camp is rather slow in 5 to 10 years.
Like I said: get your history right first, then I will perhaps
consider taking seriously your claims. For now, it's just bla-bla
that's not based on anything except itself.
> Emacs in fact is a good example. Nobody uses it.
Yeah, right. That'd be a very LARGE nobody.
> lol.
Same here.
> alright, i typed fast. this post is maybe 50 min but now it flies out
> sans cleanup. I have written much better about all these points
> actually, but citing my website gets tired and ignored. Better answer
> question on person to person basis, is what am trying to do.
I hope the ratio of your lines to mine will not be so large next time,
though, or else I'd need to cut my losses and stop. I will never have
enough time even to read everything you managed to dump on me in
response to just 11 lines.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2008-07-29 19:33 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 86+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2008-07-24 17:36 What does 'run' do in cperl-mode? formido
2008-07-25 3:02 ` formido
2008-07-25 14:55 ` Xah
2008-07-25 16:41 ` Ted Zlatanov
2008-07-25 21:55 ` Xah
2008-07-26 0:05 ` Florian Beck
2008-07-26 2:04 ` Xah
2008-07-26 0:33 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
[not found] ` <mailman.15432.1217032437.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-26 1:41 ` Xah
2008-07-28 11:42 ` Nikolaj Schumacher
2008-07-28 11:58 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-07-28 13:39 ` Ted Zlatanov
2008-07-28 15:02 ` Xah Lee
2008-07-28 16:34 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
[not found] ` <mailman.15504.1217262880.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-28 17:42 ` Xah Lee
2008-07-28 22:44 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-28 19:57 ` Ted Zlatanov
2008-07-28 20:28 ` Xah Lee
2008-07-28 21:31 ` Ted Zlatanov
2008-07-28 22:09 ` Xah Lee
2008-07-29 14:33 ` Ted Zlatanov
2008-07-29 23:20 ` Xah
[not found] ` <mailman.15488.1217245359.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-28 15:22 ` Xah Lee
2008-07-28 22:14 ` Nikolaj Schumacher
[not found] ` <mailman.15520.1217283300.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-28 22:54 ` Xah Lee
2008-07-29 3:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <mailman.15531.1217302334.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-29 7:25 ` Xah
2008-07-29 7:46 ` Juanma Barranquero
[not found] ` <mailman.15537.1217317612.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-29 8:41 ` Xah
2008-07-29 12:56 ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-29 13:34 ` William Case
2008-07-29 9:39 ` Phil Carmody
2008-07-29 12:55 ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-29 18:19 ` Colin S. Miller
2008-07-30 12:29 ` David Hansen
2008-07-30 13:34 ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-29 19:33 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2008-07-29 22:25 ` Andreas Eder
2008-07-29 23:35 ` Xah
2008-07-30 8:47 ` Andreas Eder
2008-07-30 9:49 ` Xah
2008-07-30 17:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <mailman.15606.1217440713.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-30 18:17 ` David Kastrup
[not found] ` <mailman.15565.1217360044.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-29 19:45 ` Joost Diepenmaat
2008-07-29 21:16 ` Xah
2008-07-30 3:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <mailman.15577.1217388899.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-30 3:55 ` Xah
2008-07-30 18:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <mailman.15607.1217441187.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-30 18:37 ` Xah
2008-08-23 21:22 ` David Combs
2008-08-23 21:41 ` Barry Margolin
2008-08-24 0:15 ` origin of the Meta key Xah
2008-08-24 3:38 ` Barry Margolin
2008-08-26 12:19 ` Allan Gottlieb
2008-07-29 11:13 ` What does 'run' do in cperl-mode? Nikolaj Schumacher
2008-07-29 11:52 ` Alan Mackenzie
[not found] ` <mailman.15542.1217330058.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-29 12:05 ` Xah
2008-07-29 21:55 ` David Kastrup
[not found] ` <mailman.15545.1217332445.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-29 12:44 ` Xah
2008-07-29 15:16 ` Nikolaj Schumacher
2008-07-29 18:27 ` Alan Mackenzie
[not found] ` <mailman.15550.1217344626.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-29 21:32 ` Xah
2008-07-29 23:06 ` Nikolaj Schumacher
[not found] ` <mailman.15574.1217372768.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-29 23:29 ` Xah
2008-07-31 19:07 ` Ted Zlatanov
2008-08-01 3:34 ` Xah
2008-08-01 7:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <mailman.15688.1217575142.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-08-01 8:00 ` Xah
2008-08-01 8:12 ` Nikolaj Schumacher
2008-08-01 15:17 ` Ted Zlatanov
2008-08-06 22:42 ` Harry Putnam
[not found] ` <mailman.15964.1218062567.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-08-06 23:22 ` Xah
2008-08-07 6:39 ` David Kastrup
2008-08-07 8:24 ` Xah
[not found] ` <mailman.15564.1217356016.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-29 22:50 ` Xah
2008-07-30 15:15 ` Alan Mackenzie
[not found] ` <mailman.15602.1217430872.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-30 17:32 ` Xah
2008-07-30 17:45 ` Joost Kremers
2008-07-30 18:33 ` Xah
2008-07-30 19:40 ` Bastien
2008-07-30 0:28 ` namekuseijin
2008-07-27 3:05 ` formido
2008-07-27 11:36 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-27 11:56 ` Thierry Volpiatto
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2008-08-06 23:27 Xah
2008-08-07 14:27 ` Harry Putnam
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