From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: What does 'run' do in cperl-mode? Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 06:34:50 +0300 Message-ID: References: <0ded5ecd-f5f6-4a8e-9d19-f61bf0401022@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com> <86hcad9ar4.fsf@lifelogs.com> <0bb45e96-f9f3-4451-a457-004bb5930c76@p10g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <927b0c4a-3de2-4be5-b86a-7ffacc4d718e@v1g2000pra.googlegroups.com> <88821130-f989-49ac-b8b1-e3cb2f5c5271@1g2000pre.googlegroups.com> <880cfe65-c525-46f7-a2e7-f76aa1168015@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <1633a503-c4b6-4e33-8ba3-07c518fed27f@r15g2000prd.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1217388927 6875 80.91.229.12 (30 Jul 2008 03:35:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 03:35:27 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 30 05:36:16 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KO2U3-0004Nv-AA for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 05:36:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54474 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KO2T8-00047y-Tb for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:35:19 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KO2Sn-00044v-HR for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:34:57 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KO2Sm-00044P-I0 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:34:57 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=33525 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KO2Sm-00044G-C9 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:34:56 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout3.012.net.il ([84.95.2.7]:65047) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KO2Sk-0006t1-DO for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:34:55 -0400 Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.229.228.238]) by i_mtaout3.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2004.12) with ESMTPA id <0K4S00A1SVA8PM30@i_mtaout3.012.net.il> for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 06:34:57 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <1633a503-c4b6-4e33-8ba3-07c518fed27f@r15g2000prd.googlegroups.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 9.1 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:56046 Archived-At: > From: Xah > Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:16:16 -0700 (PDT) >=20 > > > =E2=80=A2 Universally understood > > > > So is Meta. >=20 > Huh? Are you out of your mind Eli? Not a very nice thing to say. Are you out of arguments yet? > this can be easily verified though. Go stand on a street in downtow= n. Meta doesn't need to be understood by anyone downtown, just by Emacs users. > > > =E2=80=A2 Identical To Key's Label > > > > Only on some keyboards. >=20 > Huh? Are you serious or are you joking?? >=20 > I have a keyboard gallery here: > http://xahlee.org/emacs/keyboards.html >=20 > which includes several picts of different PC keyboards. Not all keyboards in the world are PC keyboards. > > > =E2=80=A2 Meta is Alt in practice > > > > Only on some keyboards. >=20 > Huh? I'm talking about Emacs's default binding for emacs running in > major OSes (Windows, OSX, Linux). On Windows and Linux it's Alt. On > Apple computers in OSX with Apple's keyboard, it's Alt in Aquamac, = Cmd > in Carbon Emacs. Again, this is not all. You have seen too few systems, and thus your conclusions are skewed. GNU/Linux, for example, does not run only on Intel machines with PC keyboards. > > > =E2=80=A2 Keyboards don't have Meta key today > > > > Yes, they do, at least some of them. >=20 > Did you read what i wrote? Did you read what I wrote? > > > So i consider it more as bug report now i think about it. Why? = Because > > > emacs failed to update itself when its keyboard under lisp mach= ines > > > become obsolete. > > > > You have your history wrong: Meta came from old Sun keyboards, wh= ere > > it was marked with a diamond. >=20 >=20 > Are you saying, that the Sun Microsystem's keyboard precedes Lisp > Machine's keyboard? No, I'm saying that Meta doesn't come from Lisp machines. > Do you have any detail, reference at all? Yes, but no time to write it all. > > > So back to emacs.... there was CUA mode. I don't know the histo= ry of > > > the mode, but it is my guess that mode has been floating out th= ere for > > > quite some time before it is part of emacs. I think there must = be huge > > > resistance back then, even today, the use of it is somewhat > > > controversial, and geekers are shy to admit they use it because= that > > > somehow makes them =E2=80=9CMicrosoft Kiddies=E2=80=9D. > > > > You are wrong. As long as a mode is optional, there's normally n= o > > resistance at all (assuming that it's written cleanly and accordi= ng to > > Emacs coding style and standards). >=20 > So? what is your point? That Emacs embraces change and progress, contrary to your remarks. > > I hope the ratio of your lines to mine will not be so large next = time, > > though, or else I'd need to cut my losses and stop. I will never= have > > enough time even to read everything you managed to dump on me in > > response to just 11 lines. >=20 > Let's not start slurs ok? Look who's talking. You just accused me of being insane, not reading your messages and what's not.