From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: What does 'run' do in cperl-mode?
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 06:34:50 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <ud4kwoxid.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1633a503-c4b6-4e33-8ba3-07c518fed27f@r15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
> From: Xah <xahlee@gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:16:16 -0700 (PDT)
>
> > > • Universally understood
> >
> > So is Meta.
>
> Huh? Are you out of your mind Eli?
Not a very nice thing to say. Are you out of arguments yet?
> this can be easily verified though. Go stand on a street in downtown.
Meta doesn't need to be understood by anyone downtown, just by Emacs
users.
> > > • Identical To Key's Label
> >
> > Only on some keyboards.
>
> Huh? Are you serious or are you joking??
>
> I have a keyboard gallery here:
> http://xahlee.org/emacs/keyboards.html
>
> which includes several picts of different PC keyboards.
Not all keyboards in the world are PC keyboards.
> > > • Meta is Alt in practice
> >
> > Only on some keyboards.
>
> Huh? I'm talking about Emacs's default binding for emacs running in
> major OSes (Windows, OSX, Linux). On Windows and Linux it's Alt. On
> Apple computers in OSX with Apple's keyboard, it's Alt in Aquamac, Cmd
> in Carbon Emacs.
Again, this is not all. You have seen too few systems, and thus your
conclusions are skewed. GNU/Linux, for example, does not run only on
Intel machines with PC keyboards.
> > > • Keyboards don't have Meta key today
> >
> > Yes, they do, at least some of them.
>
> Did you read what i wrote?
Did you read what I wrote?
> > > So i consider it more as bug report now i think about it. Why? Because
> > > emacs failed to update itself when its keyboard under lisp machines
> > > become obsolete.
> >
> > You have your history wrong: Meta came from old Sun keyboards, where
> > it was marked with a diamond.
>
>
> Are you saying, that the Sun Microsystem's keyboard precedes Lisp
> Machine's keyboard?
No, I'm saying that Meta doesn't come from Lisp machines.
> Do you have any detail, reference at all?
Yes, but no time to write it all.
> > > So back to emacs.... there was CUA mode. I don't know the history of
> > > the mode, but it is my guess that mode has been floating out there for
> > > quite some time before it is part of emacs. I think there must be huge
> > > resistance back then, even today, the use of it is somewhat
> > > controversial, and geekers are shy to admit they use it because that
> > > somehow makes them “Microsoft Kiddies”.
> >
> > You are wrong. As long as a mode is optional, there's normally no
> > resistance at all (assuming that it's written cleanly and according to
> > Emacs coding style and standards).
>
> So? what is your point?
That Emacs embraces change and progress, contrary to your remarks.
> > I hope the ratio of your lines to mine will not be so large next time,
> > though, or else I'd need to cut my losses and stop. I will never have
> > enough time even to read everything you managed to dump on me in
> > response to just 11 lines.
>
> Let's not start slurs ok?
Look who's talking. You just accused me of being insane, not reading
your messages and what's not.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2008-07-30 3:34 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 86+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2008-07-24 17:36 What does 'run' do in cperl-mode? formido
2008-07-25 3:02 ` formido
2008-07-25 14:55 ` Xah
2008-07-25 16:41 ` Ted Zlatanov
2008-07-25 21:55 ` Xah
2008-07-26 0:05 ` Florian Beck
2008-07-26 2:04 ` Xah
2008-07-26 0:33 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
[not found] ` <mailman.15432.1217032437.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-26 1:41 ` Xah
2008-07-28 11:42 ` Nikolaj Schumacher
2008-07-28 11:58 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-07-28 13:39 ` Ted Zlatanov
2008-07-28 15:02 ` Xah Lee
2008-07-28 16:34 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
[not found] ` <mailman.15504.1217262880.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-28 17:42 ` Xah Lee
2008-07-28 22:44 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-28 19:57 ` Ted Zlatanov
2008-07-28 20:28 ` Xah Lee
2008-07-28 21:31 ` Ted Zlatanov
2008-07-28 22:09 ` Xah Lee
2008-07-29 14:33 ` Ted Zlatanov
2008-07-29 23:20 ` Xah
[not found] ` <mailman.15488.1217245359.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-28 15:22 ` Xah Lee
2008-07-28 22:14 ` Nikolaj Schumacher
[not found] ` <mailman.15520.1217283300.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-28 22:54 ` Xah Lee
2008-07-29 3:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <mailman.15531.1217302334.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-29 7:25 ` Xah
2008-07-29 7:46 ` Juanma Barranquero
[not found] ` <mailman.15537.1217317612.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-29 8:41 ` Xah
2008-07-29 12:56 ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-29 13:34 ` William Case
2008-07-29 9:39 ` Phil Carmody
2008-07-29 12:55 ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-29 18:19 ` Colin S. Miller
2008-07-30 12:29 ` David Hansen
2008-07-30 13:34 ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-29 19:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <mailman.15565.1217360044.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-29 19:45 ` Joost Diepenmaat
2008-07-29 21:16 ` Xah
2008-07-30 3:34 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
[not found] ` <mailman.15577.1217388899.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-30 3:55 ` Xah
2008-07-30 18:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <mailman.15607.1217441187.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-30 18:37 ` Xah
2008-08-23 21:22 ` David Combs
2008-08-23 21:41 ` Barry Margolin
2008-08-24 0:15 ` origin of the Meta key Xah
2008-08-24 3:38 ` Barry Margolin
2008-08-26 12:19 ` Allan Gottlieb
2008-07-29 22:25 ` What does 'run' do in cperl-mode? Andreas Eder
2008-07-29 23:35 ` Xah
2008-07-30 8:47 ` Andreas Eder
2008-07-30 9:49 ` Xah
2008-07-30 17:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <mailman.15606.1217440713.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-30 18:17 ` David Kastrup
2008-07-29 11:13 ` Nikolaj Schumacher
2008-07-29 11:52 ` Alan Mackenzie
[not found] ` <mailman.15542.1217330058.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-29 12:05 ` Xah
2008-07-29 21:55 ` David Kastrup
[not found] ` <mailman.15545.1217332445.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-29 12:44 ` Xah
2008-07-29 15:16 ` Nikolaj Schumacher
2008-07-29 18:27 ` Alan Mackenzie
[not found] ` <mailman.15550.1217344626.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-29 21:32 ` Xah
2008-07-29 23:06 ` Nikolaj Schumacher
[not found] ` <mailman.15574.1217372768.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-29 23:29 ` Xah
2008-07-31 19:07 ` Ted Zlatanov
2008-08-01 3:34 ` Xah
2008-08-01 7:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <mailman.15688.1217575142.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-08-01 8:00 ` Xah
2008-08-01 8:12 ` Nikolaj Schumacher
2008-08-01 15:17 ` Ted Zlatanov
2008-08-06 22:42 ` Harry Putnam
[not found] ` <mailman.15964.1218062567.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-08-06 23:22 ` Xah
2008-08-07 6:39 ` David Kastrup
2008-08-07 8:24 ` Xah
[not found] ` <mailman.15564.1217356016.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-29 22:50 ` Xah
2008-07-30 15:15 ` Alan Mackenzie
[not found] ` <mailman.15602.1217430872.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-30 17:32 ` Xah
2008-07-30 17:45 ` Joost Kremers
2008-07-30 18:33 ` Xah
2008-07-30 19:40 ` Bastien
2008-07-30 0:28 ` namekuseijin
2008-07-27 3:05 ` formido
2008-07-27 11:36 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-27 11:56 ` Thierry Volpiatto
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2008-08-06 23:27 Xah
2008-08-07 14:27 ` Harry Putnam
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