From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What a modern collaboration toolkit looks like Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 22:36:30 +0200 Message-ID: References: <20071230122217.3CA84830B9A@snark.thyrsus.com> <20071231130712.GB8641@thyrsus.com> <87y7b96az8.fsf@member.fsf.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1199219801 25203 80.91.229.12 (1 Jan 2008 20:36:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 20:36:41 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Tassilo Horn Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 01 21:37:00 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1J9nr9-0004JP-Dx for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2008 21:36:59 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9nqn-0001CQ-IY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2008 15:36:37 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1J9nqj-0001C1-He for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2008 15:36:33 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1J9nqh-0001Bn-JQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2008 15:36:32 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9nqh-0001Bk-E4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2008 15:36:31 -0500 Original-Received: from heller.inter.net.il ([213.8.233.23]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1J9nqh-0005ny-3X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2008 15:36:31 -0500 Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 (IGLD-83-130-255-248.inter.net.il [83.130.255.248]) by heller.inter.net.il (MOS 3.7.3a-GA) with ESMTP id ENH56605 (AUTH halo1); Tue, 1 Jan 2008 22:36:27 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <87y7b96az8.fsf@member.fsf.org> (message from Tassilo Horn on Tue, 01 Jan 2008 12:28:43 +0100) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: FreeBSD 4.7-5.2 (or MacOS X 10.2-10.4) (2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:85818 Archived-At: > From: Tassilo Horn > Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 12:28:43 +0100 > > The current way with posting patches on emacs-devel, getting review, > rewriting the patches, yet more review and eventually being included > (but still with no write access) can make the work much harder. > [...] > I could say, hey, I've developed this new foo-mode, please look at my > git repository at http://www.tsdh.de/repos/git/foo, get the review, > change it till everybody is satisfied and eventually one of the core > devs could pull the changes. Please explain how the former is harder than the latter. You still need to wait for review and approval. OTOH, having a patch pushed into my INBOX and staring in my face runs better chances that I will review it than if I need to be on-line and type some commands first just to see it. > There's a nice video at youtube where Linus Torvalds talks about git > where he discribes the benefits of distributed VCSs (in a very > entertaining way). Linus and others invented git because Linux kernel development is radically different from Emacs development. To start using git, we need first get to the point the Linux kernel developers are at: lots of developers independently developing all kinds of extensions. _And_ we need a head maintainer who works on nothing else but integration of features she likes into the product that is eventually released. Please also don't forget that, unlike a Linux kernel, Emacs must have good user-level documentation. So decentralized development needs also solve the problem of producing high quality manuals. > IMO this would change with a VCS like git, too. On problem with the > current situation is that possible contributors might fear that their > changes break something or won't be liked by the core devs. So they > don't even try it at all. I don't see why. Someone who wants just to try things can do that in their sandbox; no one will ever know they did it unless they tell or post the patches. How is this different from using git? > So to sum up: There are quite a few young devs that write good elisp > code Do you have numbers? or is "few" == 1 here?