From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Kyllingstad Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why @#! is not Emacs using the Recycle bin on w32? Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 16:23:34 -0100 Message-ID: References: <48B7288E.3040503@gmail.com> <87wshzpszz.fsf@skyscraper.fehenstaub.lan> <48B85518.3000208@gmail.com> <87d4jqq33q.fsf@skyscraper.fehenstaub.lan> <48B94038.5070501@gmail.com> <87tzd2ocpw.fsf@skyscraper.fehenstaub.lan> <48B95210.5070704@gmail.com> <87prnqo837.fsf@skyscraper.fehenstaub.lan> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1220117073 15498 80.91.229.12 (30 Aug 2008 17:24:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 17:24:33 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)" , Emacs Devel To: Johannes Weiner Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Aug 30 19:25:27 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KZUBq-00064O-Ug for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 19:24:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35923 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KZUAs-0001jI-0D for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 13:23:46 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KZUAm-0001hY-RH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 13:23:40 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KZUAm-0001gh-2v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 13:23:40 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=47424 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KZUAl-0001gZ-QK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 13:23:39 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.esmertec.com ([212.249.37.45]:42853 helo=postie.esmertec.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KZUAl-0003pX-0n for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 13:23:39 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by postie.esmertec.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F72E32D5C; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 19:23:37 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from postie.esmertec.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (postie.esmertec.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08709-04; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 19:23:37 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mail.esmertec.com (unknown [10.10.10.10]) by postie.esmertec.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB71332DA9; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 19:23:36 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from BARBUDA ([10.10.9.60]) by mail.esmertec.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 30 Aug 2008 19:23:36 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87prnqo837.fsf@skyscraper.fehenstaub.lan> (Johannes Weiner's message of "Sat\, 30 Aug 2008 17\:06\:52 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.2 (windows-nt) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Aug 2008 17:23:36.0729 (UTC) FILETIME=[22E8D890:01C90AC5] X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at esmertec.com X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:103271 Archived-At: * Johannes Weiner: > I see that the main bulk of people using computers is more and more > getting away from understanding the tools they use and the tools > accomodate to that to become more and more simple to use intuitively and > with more mechanisms that protect ignorant users from their own actions. >=20=20 > But in this process they lose power. I noticed that when I watched a > friend of mine resizing images one by one, for hours. [snipped story] > I like Emacs because it is NOT like all the others, because it has NOT > broken heuristics that get in my way in really annoying ways. >=20=20 > Again, *nix-like interfaces might not have so many users as other > interfaces have but there *is* demand for it and if you don't like it, > adjust the tool or use a different one. I agree with the philosophy of this, but don't think it really applies for deletion of files. It might be that simple permanent deletion have the virtues of being simple to implement and fast to execute, but it's not really what most people want, if given a choice. We want: 1. delete, but with easy undelete until the space is really needed for something else 2. fast 3. safe delete, when the information _must_ be gone for privacy/security reasons rather than to reclaim disk space and remove clutter The current behaviour is neither 1 nor 3, but depending on the FS it might be 2. I guess some of the disagreement here is because there might not be any FS that supports 1, having a trash can but emptying automatically if needed without noticable performace impact. -- Ren=E9