From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: EmacsW32 invocation options Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 11:14:06 +0300 Message-ID: References: <59osrdF2m97hgU1@mid.individual.net> <4637A396.9000300@gmail.com> <87zm4mw7hj.fsf@gmail.com> <878xc6uois.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1178266469 22646 80.91.229.12 (4 May 2007 08:14:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 08:14:29 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri May 04 10:14:28 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Hjsvn-00085s-JF for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 10:14:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hjt2P-0001W1-2P for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 04:21:13 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hjt2B-0001VX-E1 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 04:20:59 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hjt2A-0001VD-CD for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 04:20:58 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hjt2A-0001V5-7q for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 04:20:58 -0400 Original-Received: from heller.inter.net.il ([213.8.233.23]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HjsvX-0000XA-HJ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 04:14:07 -0400 Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 (IGLD-80-230-210-155.inter.net.il [80.230.210.155]) by heller.inter.net.il (MOS 3.7.3a-GA) with ESMTP id CMV84345 (AUTH halo1); Fri, 4 May 2007 11:14:06 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <878xc6uois.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Hadron on Thu, 03 May 2007 13:36:59 +0200) X-detected-kernel: FreeBSD 4.7-5.2 (or MacOS X 10.2-10.4) (2) X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:43644 Archived-At: > From: Hadron > Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 13:36:59 +0200 > > I have often found in the development world that sometimes "additional > thought" is a euphemism for "not today, not tomorrow, maybe in a few > years when I have nothing better to do". It is the task of whoever suggests a change to convince the other developers of its virtue. Failure to convince them should give you a more objective estimate of its _real_ virtue, because the other developers normally provide reasoning for why they dislike the suggestion. If you (or anyone else who is reading this) want to learn about those reasons, I invite you to read the relevant discussions on emacs-devel and emacs-pretest-bug. As things frequently are with changes suggested by Lennart that other developers don't like, Lennart will continue arguing and will not accept differing opinions or modify his suggestions according to comments he receives, no matter what. When such endless and futile arguments go out of control, it is quite possible that someone would say "additional thought" meaning "not now, and I don't care when". But you can hardly accuse people who don't want their scarce free time devoted to work on Emacs be monopolized by a long heated discussion leading nowhere, can you? When cornered, people would do anything to cut their losses. > There are times when it can benefit a development to let the young > guns go blazing and see what happens. Sometimes :-; Sometimes, yes. When development stagnates, for example, or if major usability features are rejected by a dictatorship-like clique for no good reason. If you find evidence of these in the discussions related to the change suggested by Lennart that is the issue of this thread, please do point that out. > >> Is > >> Lennart open to suggestions for improvement from the people who actually > >> use it? > > > > That's a good question. > > > > Juanma > > And one fairly easy to answer - yes. But note the important bit - "from > those who actually use it". I think a more accurate answer is ``yes, if he agrees with the suggestion''. And I don't see why one needs to actually use an Emacs where server is started by default to be eligible for an opinion on that. It's not that understanding the implications of this requires actual experience.