From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Dimech Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: RE: [External] : Placement of list within an interactive clause Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 04:04:47 +0200 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="19718"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Jean Louis , "carlmarcos@tutanota.com" , Help Gnu Emacs To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jul 17 04:06:01 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oCtfV-0004vN-2D for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 17 Jul 2022 04:06:01 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44782 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oCtfT-0008FZ-Eu for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 16 Jul 2022 22:05:59 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59488) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oCtez-0008FK-1m for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Jul 2022 22:05:29 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.22]:36793) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oCtex-0004g5-8w for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Jul 2022 22:05:28 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1658023487; bh=I13fSB6UF2iZ6LVNOhOUk9nxL/pODpYnSrImwdtFs6s=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=HA3BWB8Kp9jcKFNmBY4UOi+6DRzTVIShlHoidKBpPOfc2FN6enpYmT6JNiRYS2hB7 Kk2wOgKMeLQYgdC7oMc3gvBniCDb75R8OVhV+UkH864NBX67F1Ft2m/WBJzwRqppoy M2W8xO8mf/Jwv7LTBDTMrZUXvkbIBCd/JUvHi4TU= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from [92.251.127.164] ([92.251.127.164]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs14.server.lan [172.19.170.182]) (via HTTP); Sun, 17 Jul 2022 04:04:47 +0200 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:cY/SMxkbqOMWfNwosxgJCWAk/vn77XrRPbmaGsyyrsmPDTwjpRPjRntq+aHoh/cyoTlMs yC9OYeGDVIOcrQmYkJBMiWZP5LUNLGJn/Bjg0ULyvI3Vim98z47QHqxxMGaPILLXBelnwNwEuWZX p14uqtIcuvn/71gZfnOVS0xpvzsL0obeyKaMQEt8Ve9PKjDPbyW1DVpCqag1VNUscVk+fZElHqEK cJ25qvgZiCJnvso4A43TpDKF655Mw2uIC6KdTPwEdKHFx+RpXABn1ye9EufjBjAwBut058hPvO6e Sc= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:Ggy/6tNlv0k=:On66zheaNcFyN2rDxsiU4u UDzYN4iotHlqS58PEsN6UtEyVM0T1QQOBeYcIvLmWyQA8nUZ5abAQiDJKkjal+tb2Ku1SCdxH Kpmhp15wbLcNmOwR+6rF/cJZA/B6y8398W7pcWm+vjhlPwJo/3FMtnwHC/0B1xs8tv/YJFjkd A1zf1121zki2XCCKvwdM95/7GvPcsdJd370fwow91N93QxIa5ct2IIGiF0Go0IWtCOMUMaWFC oXREZE9D9H8QAjuiuFCGBnlD+etq+BHajIzTd8PGCpHKpj1ErLOMXNkm+h3Ls6NIehZg3wH15 zhq1iiKVfbsuFl1n6EgFstCmNA4aDQtrUWbkyULCziDtlCCD+ePiP92zzuJcq+/UT9khCl+XD rZRXf87RD5OCiCHN11nsDSIoqNrZP0h4hdqpmf0ECmCyC60XrwRfnjb+NTDKphquLnerUFWSe smh8PkTk5AWaIkyOeYT9a0aKqRpsPlRdn8bzFZ5FaoF6N/0zGZ9gwCYWMRIuK1jvVDyq86U5B uhMFSTnf7k96ehsuXXABeSl24EH4J0MZuBse6V8nZ24aMTybCimCn4AJJ5EaG4HvNd9TXEKg2 ct4r/C2tLjO7UdpDNLZIbx9UOYTr2WVNRrzrwt27PRCfBs0ojDK8uNcx1lUukU3iXq7WVgaC3 Ol4uF9zKI5i3MyochTIScn2kuc1aY7rWvLSvag1akIi7kHXltc4+SpYWZHiI3XPUIOhekoasR BKpzXf/3TvgnWfGuYGTCAwlrYvpyJJM6k/rgGS7Fwf21t27zzXzzjPF/HSztwjC6aIqCkPG9 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.17.22; envelope-from=dimech@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:138509 Archived-At: > Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 1:22 PM > From: "Drew Adams" > To: "Jean Louis" , "carlmarcos@tutanota.com" > Cc: "Christopher Dimech" , "Help Gnu Emacs" > Subject: RE: [External] : Re: Placement of list within an interactive cl= ause > > There's been a lot of "noise" and running > around the barn (and around and around again) > in this thread regarding what "interactivity" > and "interactive" mean, could mean, or should > mean, for Emacs. > > In Emacs jargon, an "interactive function" is > another name for a "command". That's all. > And that's all that the `interactive' spec is > for: to make a function interactive. > > What does that mean - what is an interactive > function? It's just a function that you can > invoke in either of these ways: > > * Using `M-x' followed by the function name > * Using a key that is bound to the function. Correct. And always associated with user action. An is the notion of command. It is not just an arbitrary command though, but commands that a user can access whilst running the program. > That's _all_ it means, in Emacs jargon. In > particular, it has _NOTHING_ whatsoever, per > se, to do with any reading of user input, > from the minibuffer or in any other way. Sure. Still, calling minibuffer commands without making the function a user-accessible command (via M-x), is still user-interactive in nature. > Certainly, a function that reads user input > can be said to be interacting with the user. > But an `interactive' spec is not about that. It is actually, it is so user can access with M-x. Has nothing to do with functionality that emacs simply does under the hood. Most of what is done under the hood is not important to the user. What is important to the user is the commands he can launch. For him, that is what he defined interaction. Non-interactive is when he cannot interact with emacs commands (either with M-x or minibuffer reads). > HTH. >