From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Dimech Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Survey: Toolbars Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2020 17:54:12 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87o8iv3ac3.fsf@gnus.org> <56d1484e-6f41-575f-0fbb-fd2bd99ab152@yandex.ru> <87eejqnlxk.fsf@gnus.org> <83wnxh91qp.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="463"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , dgutov@yandex.ru, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 16 18:01:59 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kpaBa-000AX9-O0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 18:01:58 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37278 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpaBZ-0007fH-LB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 12:01:57 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39426) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpa48-0006vQ-Mv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 11:54:16 -0500 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.20]:48543) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpa46-00033k-0k; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 11:54:16 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1608137652; bh=9BY9l61wp8zJT4NmGNbl6CqNrW3pJ88bPxIy1hY40YY=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=aHIVfI0yxHtEz8rMKBk1AqwH3DChamAOs4pc8qhkox8mVweoxCT0+HY4ssoJ9eYNE DHpZjYiinZtrtzrNlO3rTGsP/oFQ3LZZeJtwcmrEDgv37LkudULsc77WbZhlSio77L rDiOAWjQ5MX2TFcY7KYpsenBjEdrTAj9QjeMXAO0= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from [213.165.168.94] ([213.165.168.94]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs11.server.lan [172.19.170.179]) (via HTTP); Wed, 16 Dec 2020 17:54:12 +0100 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: <83wnxh91qp.fsf@gnu.org> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:UhJy/sTx0vWFdYrzq+Y3pZXlsoOAhfztqa3q9m+CUQs+9UlKIsqsvWVVxBSOa52XryRfv uawfgDpOE/yoUQA5B3d0fN1O3X4vElOCcfuh8cl2ha/m1dBKHpLd/Ckd2WaPABZ673Xd+jqaU3ec k+jkId+a3KbHe500oKZWbgTJNMZPtXx84FjNY5zZIJTV7lAvxtrVZV0NEsjdUqS4eMjWE3D1Vz35 dcCchUdK3QDCRJK3juaocSG5dFfEmlT2dsAd9sum6Xm8WoXX2jItYOP0bVy5QNN59FPnUuT52QWB qw= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:gK3W/hWkG9w=:adpsQb11oczPJjL94o4Xzi 0aS4xBB7wg79tbxSb5iY280K6XhYUJNXEBrXitgJ66MIn41oz7tGD8zz0hnNdCSBNXRMh0Pw5 nhgtXpEWZF8mq5BzRVTN8LROmtX/oqAwHKrf5ag3j39OOZhKKZ4gOUNZ1ITuuAmCFU+fW+Fvg jCLDoJkUwI2aQI4te3rkl5Y3A12dWoVzCXxcYPZyYQRjNvfEZQ49vsGtBs9hZvIM2liHRe8ci u4m/mS82jMvDlkAolWIlswyZyQjq6bDqbn6A1JVprUOGY+NsENJIWeBmnjYjpWhIUzb1z255Z JDIly6zDBLOs5OnmBx73KB0Mu+Szb4c1uMTTyclKWFohzJUt2jTOkuwaXK0loOtTotjRTW/Ua Z6pNxFzWq1nnhf2JXMr5x82viv2f/r7zS5SY4ThYyHaT9pRvSF58465Ffv1H8VYn4stktoJRI KSd23X9WCsqsHpvILNS9a1DGlRr6WbXV72lG/YMhGb+4Za9K8//TUC/2QT2KLmtCtBmu2ZrEf DzDleNHjPF5XrMeg6Urhj7ZAeYr3Cn9zPzJO2cSfjJqsEgAVjCBRJi61jaJYGGWJ7AY7RqwO1 5DcmSJwxb/A5A= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.17.20; envelope-from=dimech@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:261016 Archived-At: =2D-------------------- Christopher Dimech General Administrator - Naiad Informatics - GNU Project (Geocomputation) - Geophysical Simulation - Geological Subsurface Mapping - Disaster Preparedness and Mitigation - Natural Resource Exploration and Production - Free Software Advocacy > Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2020 at 5:03 PM > From: "Eli Zaretskii" > To: "Lars Ingebrigtsen" > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru > Subject: Re: Emacs Survey: Toolbars > > > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > > Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2020 10:24:07 +0100 > > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > > > > I mean, look at the toolbar that happens when you "emacs -Q": You get = an > > Emacs with a scratch buffer... with a "Save" icon. In a buffer that > > can't be saved. > > Which is why the "Save" button is disabled when you are in *scratch*. > > > That's how much attention we've spent on toolbars in two decades. > > I think we gave the tool bar (and the menu bar) attention it deserves. There are more important areas for improvement than whether a switch is "o= n" or "off". For instance, making auto-complete be part of standard emacs by default, e= xtending the completion interface to provide an environment for users to concentrate mo= re on their own work. Emacs got momentum in the past because of great tools like org-mode, magit= , ivy. > > All the items in the *scratch* buffer toolbar are more natural for a > > menu, and they're already present there. > > That is generally true for any tool bar in any GUI program. > >