From: Christopher Dimech via Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists <emacs-tangents@gnu.org>
To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
Cc: emacs-tangents@gnu.org
Subject: Emacs website, Lisp, and other
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2024 23:07:45 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <trinity-c9846b7c-6518-4961-a3ee-6efef431af6f-1722892065632@3c-app-mailcom-bs04> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <ZrEwD0Sn7CuJxu26@ACM>
Alan, we both opened a discussion on tangents.
> Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2024 at 8:03 AM
> From: "Alan Mackenzie" <acm@muc.de>
> To: emacs-tangents@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: Emacs website, Lisp, and other
>
> Hello, Emanuel.
>
> On Mon, Aug 05, 2024 at 00:55:48 +0200, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> > Jeremy Bryant wrote:
>
> > > Lisp is the most powerful and elegant of programming
> > > languages. If you want to see how powerful and elegant
> > > a programming language can be, you need to learn Lisp.
> > > It will give you standard for measuring other languages.
>
> > Ah, I don't know, that kind of boasting. Powerful and elegant
> > are both immeasurable things, well, maybe in electrical
> > engineering one can measure it.
>
> > > Calling Emacs Lisp "python-like" is derogatory to Emacs
> > > Lisp. Python has some of the characteristics that make Lisp
> > > superior, but not all of them.
>
> > Okay, then everyone should know this is a controversial thing
> > to say. No one, or very few, would recommend Emacs Lisp as an
> > alternative to Python 2024.
>
> > It will sounds like we are a bunch of fanatics boasting from
> > our own echo chamber were, inside it, we all are fantastic and
> > high on Lisp.
>
> > Lisp's superiority is a myth.
>
> > To me it is more like a drug :)
>
> To understand the opposite point of view, read one of Paul Graham's
> essays at https://paulgraham.com/icad.html, where he describes 9
> novelties introduced by Lisp into programming in 1958, and how most, but
> not all, of these have since been adopted by lesser languages.
>
> My own view is that Lisp indeed is one of the top languages, but that
> Common Lisp is too big, and thus too difficult, to learn for most
> programmers. For those who succeed in learning it, their productivity
> will be enormous whilst using it. Maybe this productivity could be
> matched by other "strange" languages (Haskell, perhaps?), but not by
> "normal" languages such as C, C++, Java, Python or perl. I think it a
> pity that a moderate sized Lisp, something around the size of Emacs Lisp
> without the cl-* extensions, never made it as a general purpose language
> alongside the above.
>
> > --
> > underground experts united
> > https://dataswamp.org/~incal
>
> --
> Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
>
> ---
> via emacs-tangents mailing list (https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-tangents)
>
---
via emacs-tangents mailing list (https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-tangents)
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2024-08-05 21:07 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 74+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2024-08-04 22:27 Emacs website, Lisp, and other Jeremy Bryant
2024-08-04 22:55 ` Emanuel Berg
2024-08-05 4:29 ` Emanuel Berg
2024-08-05 9:23 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-08-05 10:43 ` Emanuel Berg
2024-08-05 11:37 ` divya
2024-08-05 11:56 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-08-05 12:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-05 11:45 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-08-05 12:56 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2024-08-05 13:16 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2024-08-05 14:46 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-08-05 21:28 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2024-08-05 14:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-05 12:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-05 16:27 ` 10 problems with Elisp, part 10 (was: Re: Emacs website, Lisp, and other) Emanuel Berg
2024-08-05 16:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-05 17:03 ` Emanuel Berg
2024-08-05 18:32 ` 10 problems with Elisp, part 10 Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2024-08-05 20:20 ` Emanuel Berg
2024-08-06 7:14 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2024-08-06 7:21 ` Org mode API (was: 10 problems with Elisp, part 10) Ihor Radchenko
2024-08-06 8:23 ` Org mode API Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2024-08-10 16:55 ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-08-06 11:54 ` 10 problems with Elisp, part 10 Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-08 2:01 ` Richard Stallman
2024-08-09 22:39 ` Emanuel Berg
2024-08-13 1:28 ` Richard Stallman
2024-08-09 22:46 ` Emanuel Berg
2024-08-10 5:41 ` Emanuel Berg
2024-08-10 6:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-13 1:28 ` Richard Stallman
2024-08-05 18:58 ` 10 problems with Elisp, part 10 (was: Re: Emacs website, Lisp, and other) Christopher Dimech
2024-08-05 19:30 ` 10 problems with Elisp, part 10 Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2024-08-05 20:02 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-08-08 2:01 ` Richard Stallman
2024-08-06 2:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-05 17:13 ` 10 problems with Elisp, part 10 (was: Re: Emacs website, Lisp, and other) Yuri Khan
2024-08-06 6:39 ` Emanuel Berg
2024-08-06 11:16 ` Richard Stallman
2024-08-06 22:08 ` Emanuel Berg
2024-08-05 20:03 ` Emacs website, Lisp, and other Alan Mackenzie
2024-08-05 21:07 ` Christopher Dimech via Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists [this message]
2024-08-06 7:42 ` Jean Louis
2024-08-06 11:14 ` Immanuel Litzroth
2024-08-05 11:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-06 19:09 ` Jeremy Bryant
2024-08-06 19:50 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-08-06 20:35 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-08-06 22:10 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2024-08-06 22:48 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-08-06 23:09 ` Drew Adams
2024-08-06 23:21 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-08-07 1:09 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2024-08-06 22:26 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-08-07 5:45 ` Emanuel Berg
2024-08-15 3:53 ` Madhu
2024-08-15 5:50 ` Emanuel Berg
2024-08-15 9:17 ` Madhu
2024-08-15 9:57 ` Emanuel Berg
2024-08-15 6:17 ` Emanuel Berg
2024-08-15 7:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-15 8:06 ` Emanuel Berg
2024-08-15 9:27 ` Emanuel Berg
2024-08-15 16:03 ` Emanuel Berg
2024-08-07 11:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-07 12:03 ` Andrea Corallo
2024-08-07 12:16 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-08-08 2:01 ` Richard Stallman
2024-08-08 6:51 ` Joel Reicher
2024-08-07 12:31 ` Christopher Dimech
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2024-08-06 13:13 Abraham S.A.H. via Emacs development discussions.
2024-08-07 7:27 ` Emanuel Berg
2024-08-07 11:24 ` Christopher Dimech
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