From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Dimech Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Modifier Keys and the Archaic Meta Key Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 22:07:45 +0100 Message-ID: References: <64F19108-F8EA-4D43-ADA2-F002B37C60FE@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="36511"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Help Gnu Emacs To: Francis Belliveau Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 25 22:09:47 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kWnGt-0009Ok-Lx for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 22:09:47 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47040 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kWnGs-0001jt-Gy for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 17:09:46 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54204) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kWnFC-0001jX-QC for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 17:08:02 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.20]:38821) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kWnFA-00012F-E9 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 17:08:02 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1603660065; bh=rFFsYFRMoqYQ1gopkHOt8esffzUjDoeEbkge2QosZSE=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=aw6y/44UJ3mgwL0CQEf9FUIMeM1gy7oSTN2aSw7xi3Dvy3iLA/NvYwU4YLauyxF6q iwnY5CFoSnV7K2Y6kzgNsgDgKJmvR9qdobMcAkrcqsxky0RmrwVmhvTwCycOt61FIj bM01FHmT0daSDpFZyjB8VFFznEk/s3Pfd2QLP9CI= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from [213.165.168.94] ([213.165.168.94]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs14.server.lan [172.19.170.182]) (via HTTP); Sun, 25 Oct 2020 22:07:45 +0100 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: <64F19108-F8EA-4D43-ADA2-F002B37C60FE@comcast.net> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:eX2bSMqC7zbMNjKHd9E8Vkc9ZGI7MIohH4E/jEDn0zX1VwiaAeED/BdpLu1NeRde5pC04 XQyiLCu32yiuG/1n3n6I1VM/c4UiFUiBjjdR+FkHKYRbwVKaMaTefPwz+0YgDChxCeMQZKPrwGyc FwIPoIIsq/rlwFFXrr8vRwGKFHgqUvKMFw8dnwcy+umF+F3LfA48LDSsDLlfBJv1CZv/SH19n6b3 B8KeldVZGV82SSC2CZE+5HVaaT7oOYlPCexmJ6o1Zdtb8DR98fHFQk4OsjT7V5AdU+HjPdFqwpCN 6U= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:4nY95DRxLlA=:MUJzkerlgvXO+2P5vqVjIl uiKOfDGvtMqSACz88UQDSg4IftFKeTfkQl+VG3ksxviWv2Hre5e9eFUVD8HiX6QpbNMyrah9S X2q+Z9mTRseGaZAo3ETyOqj69Yl70UR+59fWPfQ+YxUKGaUwPz9e/PSOGpjhZpP30r9yQwpo7 1ojm3S5ruPE+ibCKKoo4DUkKenOHWcjaIMtvemTvW65kq95XlQ4VEV+1kFwEe7u6nWEDzRi/G Ay4YMLicJ3sf62rHiaDUttkoBw6diGC0plLk+Qr0xGcqAvEMQl8naBnFLaQWVYxz+uRD+qoxk gL493dlOKmSKJSstvf/uBrboYT3DGvu5AmOPP9UMHSgTyYCDQ5BMXzDSfKKOVqhklc9azOc6f XHhs4a326f0NGR7yL378vO9zvQt4DduCqxCfVM0ibHFtmOyuGzKE8LSr9t9edCj/Jt0n0v60/ 1do0PU4tvkZqm1GGtH90qsqPsW4qYf+nXn3KttoyeZIiTKaS62ZdMhTrm4R85jDJdMs/XWuLJ aHrM2WhrZ5N/624emts/LY/3HkqrhA7PDWuCRRAXKFMqQjqB8HAU0n5wXCxZQBzzC5AZaGBL8 RLZ4yNgeVQwvs= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.17.20; envelope-from=dimech@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/25 17:07:58 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:124715 Archived-At: If you look at Emacs Built-In Key Bindings using "C-h b", you will notice that many bindings use the Control Key "C-" (Priority 1). The Meta Key wa= s used as an Alternate Control Key for other commands and is less numerous t= han commands with "C-". On the original Lisp Machine Keyboards, the Control key was the key adjace= nt to the Space Bar, and was used because it was the easiest key to reach (hence Priority 1). On newer keyboards, the Control Key is the third key away fro= m the Space Bar. This make "C-" more difficult to use. Hence there are some (i= ncluding myself) who remap the key to be the one closest to the Space Bar as in the= Original Lisp Keyboards. The Meta key was the next key closest to the Control Key. Hence Priority = 2, as it started to be used for commands that had already been binded to "C-". The Hyper (H), Shift (S) and Super (s) Modifier keys were not really used,= but users could use them for their own keybindings so the Emacs Built-In Commands could be= retained. The Shift key was between the Control Key and the Meta Key. Perhaps the S= hift Key can be assigned Priority 3. There followed by the Super and finally by the Hyper= Key, furthest away. Thus in sequence from farthest to closest from Space Bar, the Modifier Mne= monics are {H,s,S,M,C}. My argument is to have them {s,S,H,M,C}. This remapping mak= es User Defined Key Bindings next to the Principal Emacs Modifier Keys {M,C}. The= Shift Key is used for a very limited commands (e.g., C-M-S). This gives idea of pri= ority. Thus we can choose user defined keys with Hyper to be Priority 3, and let = the Shift Key become secondary to the Hyper. Currently, the Mnemonic for the Super = Key is small letter "s", which can be regarded as the lowest priority key of the = five modifier keys that are used by Emacs Users. Have suggested to also add Mo= difier Mnemonic P, in addition to 's', because Modifier Keys are customarily Upca= se Letters, except for the Super Key (thusly use the middle letter and Capitalise it). The considerations mentioned bring an easier and more organised approach t= o Key Bindings, similar the the original ideas around the topic. Today we have = lost such organised approach and we just bundle all keys with equal regard. A = situation that has always got problematic to those trying to make sense to the many = built-in key-bindings in Emacs and how to pragmatically construct one's own. Just as Guy Steele reconciled the six different Emacs Keybindings Sets of = the time, I am working to do the same for the new generation of Keyboards with more = possibilities for constructing one's own. This has become vital particularly following = the development of Keyboard Variants such as Colemak (most suitable for the English Langua= ge) and Dvorak (for other languages, especially non-latin ones). There are also the mech= anical keyboard today with the Cherry MX Speed or Silver Switches that travel onl= y 1.2 mm rather than the standard 2mm, and require 45g of Actuation Force in contra= st to the 50g for Cherry MX Blues and the 60g for Cherry MX Blacks. I am currently using the Cherry MX Silver myself. Regards Christopher > Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2020 at 8:57 PM > From: "Francis Belliveau" > To: No recipient address > Cc: "Help Gnu Emacs" > Subject: Re: Modifier Keys and the Archaic Meta Key > > > > > On Oct 25, 2020, at 08:49, Christopher Dimech wrote: > > > > > > Not instantly, that is agreed. But we can start with adding > > the Key-Mnemonics 'A' and 'P'. We can call the key with Priority > > 2, the Alternate Key 'A'. > > > > So nomenclature will be, by priority and Mnemonics: > > > > Control (C), Alternate (A,M), Hyper(H), Shift(S), Super(P,s). > > It seems that I have been left in the dark somewhere along the line. I = do not understand the concept of "priorities" in this context. > I have been using Emacs since the 1980's. > As I see it there are three modifier keys: Shift,Control and what Emacs = calls Meta. In general, Shift does not have meaning since it only changes= the character that the other modifiers apply to (C-a versus C-A or C-, ve= rsus C-<). > I have always understood that what the Emacs documentation referred to a= s "the Meta Key" as the other modifier key used by the current OS or setup= . > As I understand things the modifier keys apply, period. C-M-a has no re= lationship to either C-a or M-a so where does priority come into play here= ? > > Fran >