From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Dimech Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: outline-minor-mode and org-mode capabilities for programming languages Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 08:53:23 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87zgx3zu6e.fsf@zoho.eu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="18711"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Jean Louis Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon May 10 08:54:21 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lfzo4-0004is-Rl for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 10 May 2021 08:54:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44346 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lfzo3-0004NW-Tc for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 10 May 2021 02:54:19 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33334) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lfzni-0004NJ-NQ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 10 May 2021 02:53:58 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]:53597) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lfznf-0003wL-Qj for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 10 May 2021 02:53:58 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1620629603; bh=qIxj39+91oUlTmUr0W7aGk4rtteS4fZBaCfyCgLsfF8=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=gA/PEFUi4XHDpEQYSprtr22eMdjBh5xHJ8xvQ4JvyxBcTEET2PkJMIZ17Trxer8eR go/M70OUmAs/0YiAFD93j2HU78wwB4WyYPERIJhL004ID8zOQc/d4oy4NTXDyM0ekJ K5pCLOnFYEg7ukKxuP2wxdA2Kc1hhfy9i0rGU1YU= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from [213.165.168.94] ([213.165.168.94]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs04.server.lan [172.19.170.170]) (via HTTP); Mon, 10 May 2021 08:53:23 +0200 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:aDoPmgsBg2rLPbI9Xh0DarJxvlmY9qenX5VRbqIcOjaYWmj8Ma+puSfsQe9TuaNh1VoFS Cs9wlgbHREw6CgWjaADjKxfVJ5xwF/gQS2jkzT1bBUl6Ms1Jd+uZs0vAihN9SOXs4/eNq3GLLuIX ZBRbF8xryLrZLvTB5XUe/EXxhK+OO4VAd+SdX8STPwwg1Bhw0/9JFfvBieXgVGXjVoDBADfoUGuK WZpDnhNsDE6crkstZ8CrcJNSWfQXDQ/RdS89J0OuyB4hvJuNBozf43mfo8NtQhl33Q23iqGWFJfN 50= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:W0Jh9iKLAso=:s6VYnduyOZavPkpppgfbj6 rhJhPXYbtLYO8B+ArJePYnGRbPVmp4ihushukcMdNZ7P4UDdkusaaxGFDXxms2zHtm6qIJoSU c3tlyXW9LccKqLvVWJsIkGngibm8UhQ9hEGlGUbT4Zk84wHRcZHTUZGceX6BPfIL5GdZ2ff0E 05Vw/W6vNSQRbg5FNFp21lKKs3LGVk+/C/uMGNn3x1Buzg/f3lRGBNwnqlOzbM6IUJcNHne1o LXy5RtYh1aQLqqhIRXnBN+YWga6MWb8HIqbqvLmxkbJ/segdfkin6u8rA+svEgJkp8Qz8pN1e kfSqe2CacavmRPqDudc7nCgxL5ZRP2fiygiVxHvEPnBUdPvHfkHurXi290bKBgwpq4xR/7ZoA KX/8rzwjtWdf1x/Nkt/w3cCri3Hl0tTwKGWD8DlUxXyOcCrYzEy1V5pMmYq19wfgL72EXNond ijhDFeynimyleHm0niKUArIIZozTJeFBFL4mMunqgYZBqTfOAEqj/mqWlmpQKLLZsM8ivjdgL mGi+vxvy8Md+u8AxDX6rURlDi9LEXhotKrUF5d2fX7MfiubQJbNQyiM4xpnSHywzVUSyZo5B7 zeaVnVkMpaluK4lz3JiGEZ5wbE8n7IzrI2J0tzr82sR1VXgYOJUfcAe9lnD2lAhdXL9rBBz4y +YO/daghNq11/X/7XsyAncu+/bX6HYulcnlwbzgiMCFrNrpIa/8YpnUT4RaPK/zPTxQNiSgfA HJoixsymbSoHayPomW9dbNKT74CDW0qli20kf0O2OLQN22VkoI3wi3l+EDO+ryA7A9ki/OWP Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.18; envelope-from=dimech@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:129649 Archived-At: > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 at 6:22 PM > From: "Jean Louis" > To: "Christopher Dimech" > Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org > Subject: Re: outline-minor-mode and org-mode capabilities for programmin= g languages > > * Christopher Dimech [2021-05-10 04:49]: > > Whilst I agree that programming language modes do their thing well, an= d org-mode > > does its things well, the idea of headings and folding could be made t= o work much > > better for programming languages. Additionally, there could be org-mi= nor-mode > > that is specific for programming languages. The people at org-mode wo= uld know > > best about the capabilities and functionalities that would entail. We= could also > > take some information out on their implementation. > > You said org-minor-mode yet you maybe wish to say what features you > think could Org mode provide to Emacs Lisp mode? It is unclear. It could be called orgprog-minor-mode, org capability for programming languages. Mainly catering for highligting, headlines and folding to start with. > Like should I mark functions with TODO/DONE? No > Should I be able to open up agenda to know which function is to be > executed at which time? No > Should there be properties? No > Should I tag functions? No > Am I able to hyperlink one function to other? No > While this may sound apparently funny, I do think that type of editing > would be useful. Could be useful, I cannot deny it. But let,s constrain things for now. > One way to implement it could be to use the database backed chunked > editing where every function receives its database node and has its > attributes which are quickly cycled with TAB. It could show the same > what is shown in outline mode. As I am developing system that augments > thought processing I could simply define an Emacs Lisp programming > node, and enter in such node any chunks I wish. > Then each specific function, thus database node, could be verified on > the fly if it is correct. A huge program could be written that way and > one could see which function is node is written correctly which one > not. It could create a file on the fly for final distribution. One > could reach any functions by its semantics, tags, properties, describe > them fully and thus augment human perception. > All the thousands of Emacs packages could be imported in that way > which would allow re-using of the code in a new fantastic manner, > searchable by semantics and indexes. No more worries on which function > was taken from which package, program could tell how it was modified > and would create the Commentar or log, and thus solve licensing issues > automatically. Reuse of code is currently difficult. > Creating new specialized packages would be a breeze, just choose those > functions needed by its semantics and new narrowed package could be > created with its headers, licensing issues, modifications, as nothing > of that human need to think of. > User is creating function for what? List related stuff? Just choose > the function by its semantic, completion or other menu system, even > review it, and it is inserted into buffer to create a new function. The areas of action I outlined for programming languages would be valuable during code review. > When attributes and description of the code is well done, and it can > be done fast, programmers would be able to tell in human language what > they need to do, and algorithm could tell how to do it, and which > available parts already exist. That could help developers navigate the code without needing too much input from the original author or maintainer. > As we do not re-use enough. There are thousands of packages and we > don't have quite a good database to find what we need. Quite right. Quite right > Example of lack of code re-use are various markup modes that in the > essence all do the same, like HTML has , Markdown has > its **bold** and Org has *bold*, then there is list of other similar > markup that does essentially the same, code is re-written all over > again instead of defining the tags or markup as some kind of data, and > having it ready for user by some kind of universal mode that would > find major mode and type of text and automatically assign the > markup. > > And for each mode I have to use different key bindings, terrible. If I > wish to markup something as "strong" or "bold" face, I want to use in > every mode same key binding, not different. > > Importing functions into a database would not impair running program > as a file or a distributing it, it could just help its structure > better. > > It would allow the true collaboration: on the multiple functions on > the same file several multiple users could work in parallel. On the > same function people could work by using crdt.el package, each > function and thus the node would have its automatic revision system, > not file based revision, rather function or node based revision. > > It would be the Outline system, but Outline on a meta level. I suggest that outline-minor-mode be also refactored and revamped, as I ha= ve seen much additional code on top of it (outline-magic, orgstruct, outshine= ). > -- > Jean > > Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: > https://www.fsf.org/campaigns > > Sign an open letter in support of Richard M. Stallman > https://stallmansupport.org/ > https://rms-support-letter.github.io/ > > >