From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Dimech Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: RE: [External] : completing-read depricated initial-input Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 04:59:44 +0200 Message-ID: References: <86r13hubaw.fsf_-_@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="23514"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Arash Esbati , "eliz@gnu.org" , "monnier@iro.umontreal.ca" , Help Gnu Emacs , "carlmarcos@tutanota.com" , "michael_heerdegen@web.de" To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 22 05:01:21 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o3qcK-0005wp-GU for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 22 Jun 2022 05:01:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52380 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o3qcJ-0000hG-18 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 21 Jun 2022 23:01:19 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48654) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o3qay-0000gu-V4 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jun 2022 22:59:57 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.20]:46659) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o3qaw-0001fW-00; Tue, 21 Jun 2022 22:59:56 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1655866784; bh=d1bcdPRaxesmfJzz7u+cg51O25XhmM36zH9W2iFMR98=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=kGe3WVEUv8+VvW2DhYI8kyOqo/yldD1mhyF7owByaExA25p02EQm5eBvL+szoVHjI T936lFHKv5M7U66C7iTbpZJMbR6sU1rBQn9EpTalAoBx/OIodmXNNKwNIjqPsA3pJ5 lJi4XW52NzAPSLd1lwqHnLYRgoTpEY2BpLIRJuGw= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from [92.251.127.164] ([92.251.127.164]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs15.server.lan [172.19.170.183]) (via HTTP); Wed, 22 Jun 2022 04:59:44 +0200 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:ZVnnNbANdaSQjpMXkAB4/ssfDk6kiRKEdYvs8tq+Gbx21g5PE+VSU7XE2aOe0cALw0QJp SDB3zFI6PAISviSgX+Pp5TVzGFEd1799evUcXPdpubdSUEUF6s+XMQzd6xR8nWR3V6qXTl1iHSpo rAoRUQw7ofPa+KC0qNiwGb8rBFb2YDmh5hrSqZ324JEZ7yQ1IDH0UiYkmg/muw2PYxzaBQzqbRE5 moQL/Oq3PB2IcvibdQqBjvkvVQYg7Pbe55g6cFy7eR7TzaDQgJtDOFzjvEeCCqaVYOMtjmVe6z4i fo= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:2usvDvci5A8=:8BZHWYOF4gyrFM9pKoSu2Z EN7PMu8YiWMTMc3wLG2gcBrKVL1bEYESVQNMzxi6KeVI7rmtlx9bmiVrJLugO7gfVZiKe3fwS eCY3/yOMaOAWbd2hBUseUNuKJP2C+j5eFVKhBVfF+EJfNmYB0K9ZlrtG2LGlZA5rjJu1Jrbcz HAAws3O46F/isVoVLs3PCQByORiNzghx3MTI1nt5cYdxPz/bbJTBeoiCV8Pn1IO7yKc2dA5bD +5LFSkm4dFxsIbfKrfFrrG6gta/f3KQ0MKCwm66V9t+3KVHAWx78Mu7etMrNYhEwIq4xWfTmm LojzGkoS3R69BWPsYATvdIT3+ZkC1T6Z+fn6eQ4ZLMutnRva9Luw9mbUkQy85konM3ElYjUbX 3x68SsFgSnRSf8eRBce0dDmweOg0lvYJeX03Q9xq8htxjo+lYBNU3N6WF0bpphECnxGIYXqAb iW9Ln0VeX8RLJSXB+CO5TW20BzuXZMEd+tdNIDFKi3qFVXAuCsXU44ooegBOqb2zO4RR5KJdL /yvVTZZTJGdwCEFYYJBJRDJBrDhuhGROaceLmnIrnSAlre+20htQJjxhi5N8nr+/SPxGoIqpu U5pHByQja7FTaqqNj5Anww+S21KfO9zC1fCCUF/cWXkwFjkmvBikCK9uuOCPkFWVbMc3EyzAX WjqYlrkDLu0RRIpLu41LISdtozFtyI9l/AAUfTj+3/2Unh28azZ+CxjfZ+Vxni4k8Nx0r4680 KGv88uenmhc7qt5ypvedzyLzRgut/Jg6fnSY7a76U/jtIyEw1OET3QFSTl8fpOFdJGgRzRXq Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.17.20; envelope-from=dimech@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:137975 Archived-At: > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 8:41 AM > From: "Drew Adams" > To: "Arash Esbati" > Cc: "Christopher Dimech" , "eliz@gnu.org" = , "monnier@iro.umontreal.ca" , "Help Gnu Emacs" = , "carlmarcos@tutanota.com" , "michael_heerdegen@web.de" > Subject: RE: [External] : Re: completing-read depricated initial-input > > > > 3. The "argument" for deprecating it amounted to only > > > a statement that stylistically some preferred that > > > only the DEF (default value) argument be used. > ^^^^ > > > > I thought the argument was "INITIAL-INPUT in too > > intrusive in the minibuffer, most notably, when > > it's not what the user wants, and then the hassle > > with C-a C-k and such begins". > > That's an argument about UI interaction style. And > the "only" is the real key to what's misguided. > > Different users can prefer different interactions. > Different coders can prefer different interactions > for different calls to `completing-read'. > > There is no one-size-fits-all. `completing-read' > is extremely general, allowing for many different > interactions for many different kinds of use cases. The evaluation makes INITIAL-INPUT worthwhile to keep. > Even if Godot proclaimed that ONE style of use is > "better" for most interactions, that's not, in > itself, a reason to not provide also for what > INITIAL-INPUT offers. > ___ > > BTW, independently of this discussion (and even > independently of completion), there should be a > single key to empty the minibuffer. (Icicles > has provided `M-k' for that forever.) > > > And if I compare: > > > > (let ((default "FOO")) > > (completing-read (format "Prompt (default %s): " default) > > '("FOO" "BAR" "BAZ") > > nil nil nil nil default)) > > > > where I hit ENTER or TAB makes more sense to me than this: > > > > (let ((default "FOO")) > > (completing-read "Prompt: " > > '("FOO" "BAR" "BAZ") > > nil nil default)) > > > > where I hit ENTER or have to delete the entry > > before I can proceed with TAB. > > That may make more sense to you. It may always > make more sense to you. It may make more sense > to you in that example. > > Those preferences might be arguments in favor > of providing ways for a user to configure such > preferences. > > None of them is an argument why INITIAL-INPUT > should be deprecated. > > > As a personal note, the INITIAL-INPUT was something in AUCTeX which > > bugged for me for a long time, especially in queries for length > > arguments. I can't say how often I've deleted "1.0\linewidth" in my > > life. > > That you don't want INITIAL-INPUT is one thing. > That some library might not make a good decision > about its use is another thing. > > Whether INITIAL-INPUT should be deprecated is > a third thing - something completely different. > >