From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Dimech Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Quote by Knuth Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 19:10:27 +0200 Message-ID: References: <878s2j2onn.fsf@zoho.eu> <87r1gbdr6d.fsf@zoho.eu> <87o8b4eiyr.fsf@mbork.pl> <87y2a8ecck.fsf@zoho.eu> <87k0lsdsaw.fsf@mbork.pl> <87eebweq7y.fsf@mbork.pl> <87im175j3a.fsf@zoho.eu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="15553"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: moasenwood@zoho.eu Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 20 19:11:05 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m5tGr-0003tU-4w for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 19:11:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39390 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m5tGq-00006O-4r for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 13:11:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50792) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m5tGN-00006F-Ng for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 13:10:37 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.21]:45161) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m5tGK-0005ul-FC for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 13:10:35 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1626801027; bh=FkxiLoUIbGxUYMxNppe86Xxu6C8EryHJBhmK3QgoAbg=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=Ivc8RVFBx9PFejXy10TAIZ6BBE0tto+sVxJ3XZOZpKIiuF54pk4wwHorTnuVjOF6U iCM2BXPyOoSV2xxyq3Jd3lPWp8RifK/K68hdx+P9Nv8zXqF2tdEswftiBi4aERQ1cC 3xVUdDBVq9WgL6Ib/zK8j2Ky0GJHC2nW/+t/k9FY= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from [92.251.40.31] ([92.251.40.31]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs01.server.lan [172.19.170.58]) (via HTTP); Tue, 20 Jul 2021 19:10:27 +0200 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: <87im175j3a.fsf@zoho.eu> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:MBrDv8LKTJAI/awyD3RjTdzKVAKnRwTNPdLRxOe4db6/9+q97vNUg/1gqRKTD8d64lgVJ OrEmntlxlmTpsDitES9niQ2eVGpaMvdAaJ8Cuib6ijk0Wi3UfnBDwssmxhHGcC003IoPAt18yolk 5Nk9hnAhHbhT/VGwnKUlgZ9fq82AZHe7bPDI7qtl/raqIIiT71Oct1iPUVqMsoWdPZmIwENz6XxU 2Qg4nWbRHfTs26sVXKUQl7Suzwgc6oqD0qndAD9HYXNGzpdYx8XgddUBMsIqqTMiJWxRI9T9EMpd YI= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:E/E6hFjUijY=:qg3t1qtRmrGFQTg3h06MNE VTuA/1ZLYk45muSMMBmTEiV32N9E9KljuaY2RixgOTJO+N5JYfT8BOnWAcG+EMiYUl9wTYAaQ R8dgyuo63xnR2vrLl/2A2800tlgb/7Gf0dM/e3l2TPY3Vm21tqfLRNm7MNqCwMxHumckmRkqL dMh/kHW9HMPKzYNYcXbk38wA3gUbGj+i/PDM3Jp/lJollTJTPVHM2sfTocoRdaDKtF0eJh6cm PIDxXWxjUo+GsM/nJPt66FV49r173NiQPmmboI9iBbWrLF3Jw1E217O490eTIPkZz5+t9luBi 7Z234tlL+BkFrBE22L7NTjL2c1s9IUDJ28DIrYtZ53euvSfhKj20nMwvYMInaSh8Rsy+GpmDW IHXyDRAysvf01/Z5SYJXER0qiAIZl/zd8AtEWCGNIRaL3lcuwDOSwg41b6QjYH13eO9EXJYZ2 Q8hxHgr9Z2yno5u6KLbt0T0tgxY/feTVNXAZKqAG8zvh9sEcTypIu4bMw5oqithn8Gvma1VhP ustzWHz1+/PmFwMBzlNk+QeGzTiQ/uZZ6BuXjmH7rETymRP8KvjtILuuYNtqA3L8wR5nbARpv 32uwjonddUaBAr2ibrqLIIdkTFO3cqoSBR9PdaYrRQhqMHqVZY+ESYVUewsHjqseNXJPGzZvG Z4XCGfPyThCXm62jXaJrOnbdu22wqwbNmOyfdtv23F1GtN0SLmXFDnhNNPaQ9Xi9vWHxthN8r KEfuicouWR9UkTlt9dxHIugBw8tu/dwiGdnndXJEgzWL8D9SgEr6JBjSWItovBow+gqHEpb1 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.17.21; envelope-from=dimech@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:131888 Archived-At: > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 at 10:54 AM > From: "Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor" > To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org > Subject: Re: Quote by Knuth > > Christopher Dimech wrote: > > > I understand that. About twenty years ago, I tried it. > > It gets things even more complicated than they are. > > Yes, of course, as macros involve yet another layer > in-between. You don't write source to do stuff, you write > source to write source to do stuff. > > > I rather have a number of small well contained > > implementations. I disagree with Knuth that a practitioner > > of literate programming becomes an essayist, whose main > > concern is with exposition and excellence of style, rather > > than how to perform the actual computation. > > Aha, so that's the idea/vision! Well, how poetic! But very > impractical in all the easy cases, and even more so in the > difficult ones. > > > The biggest problem has always been how to do something, > > rather than how to describe it. > > Well, these are two different tendencies, and where they all > lead, only Jehovah knows. For example the thought with C++, > C with classes, solve the problem by creating a model (an OO > model) of it. An interesting thought that lead to a small > revolution of the ... computer game industry? And today, the > C++ enthusiasts are often not enthusiastic about OO. "It was > big in the 90s, but ..." It is not wise to put anything on a pedestal, as happened with OO. Everything has a breaking point. Not saying others should believe me, but I know it's true. > > I gave up trying to put everything in one file. > > Say what, of course you can't do that :) > > > And if done by students the problems will became even worse. > > OK, so what group do you belong to? Please tell so we can > generalize negatively about them. Have a look here. It is mostly a complete disaster, but nobody listens so as not to loose face. Have started having doubts about the usefulness of today's technological advancement long ago. http://www.isesd.hi.is/ESD_Local/frameset.htm Educated people should stop having a naive faith on the "progress" brought= by science and technology. I do not see that we are genetically adapted and = evolved well enough to control all the power we already have. https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/jul/19/edward-snowden-calls-spyware-= trade-ban-pegasus-revelations > > I know a few professors myself claiming to work on the > > dynamic properties of everything and the bullshit they say > > they have developed. They say they develop the theories, > > they develop the computational algorithms needed, they do > > everything. Until you do some work with them and realise > > there's not much to their work. Welcome to the world of > > academia in the western world. > > > > Consider Ramanujan and Perelman for instance. Both have > > worked from some pit hole making great soup. > > Modern societies have started treating everything as in some > > state of illness. The second largest industry on the planet > > is pharmaceuticals, which makes too much lousy soup. > > > > You just have to look at how the development of the > > coronavirus vaccines are happening ! Everyday, you have to > > add something else to them, else they won't work. If you're > > constantly creating nasty chemistry, how can life within you > > understand that you're seeking well-being? > > Hm ... maybe the group is people with justice > obsession syndrome? If so, yeah, they stink. I have here a professor of physics, going on and on about quantum internet and the capability for ultra-secure communication. He also projects himse= lf as some kind of expert on blockchain, cryptography, and artificial intelli= gence. When one gets the idea of being a big man thinking of transforming a minut= e nation known for its intrinsic patterns of corruption into a Centre of Excellence= in the field of digital economy, then something is really fucked up. > -- > underground experts united > https://dataswamp.org/~incal > > >