From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Dimech Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Quote by Knuth Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2021 22:58:12 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87o8bgg6br.fsf@zoho.eu> <20210705154121.GB6395@tuxteam.de> <878s2j2onn.fsf@zoho.eu> <87r1gbdr6d.fsf@zoho.eu> <87o8b4eiyr.fsf@mbork.pl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="33047"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, moasenwood@zoho.eu, Jean Louis To: Marcin Borkowski Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 14 22:59:32 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m3lye-0008KC-2l for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 14 Jul 2021 22:59:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59104 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m3lyd-0006sw-4Y for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 14 Jul 2021 16:59:31 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39572) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m3ly4-0006ku-VP for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Jul 2021 16:58:56 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.20]:44775) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m3ly0-0000SJ-Al for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Jul 2021 16:58:56 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1626296292; bh=22Y4/ib7YQ2buvJrnrRDF1IDeeGPwkV+UfxWsARfaPc=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=OZZAeDeJsOg17I/GhiuFqEwuqmUXxh1YURi8BkZDTRXgSmq4X4AVMN7+BgjAu/lKN KsKeKdt4yHOFZ/r9Ap4wYLjjkmkpbAs0edIqay5ctjz0WhcrMftlv/swpXZ/nbtVR3 Gp9eNymuiRxuvyIYM5N1mZdVXzh28fT0KJNJlQH0= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from [92.251.40.31] ([92.251.40.31]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs04.server.lan [172.19.170.170]) (via HTTP); Wed, 14 Jul 2021 22:58:12 +0200 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: <87o8b4eiyr.fsf@mbork.pl> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:s+J1vqsjLr+aZPNEtHVlSKKK5WODmGAzhYXp8uH4AAkmhT7Gl1IgDuYXEcO6hdg5KsTaP 7FgBiUInJpcvhLjtdW2EW9yDGMIcSJyTp08Y98x2O2CrgvEXjGw25cg0RRrLlZBKFAT7K8Rzqwg9 gMdAVKLAedOFTXXjCDmzhIPARRTTVOrSXWz8t89TxOgStnzTjswmZe+01JKYSPTpyjx8sMBS/mpQ w/9FnzLqXvLve+Lysj9FIBmiN9Z4XNHMtDMFGWsRtNSiYrfEAVYu/y+QMt++fc9NaMj6GxMwNTYj Ps= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:y6QOAzgO0EY=:DJh3xPFWSn0mvTE71SriHL rYjA0iFtWxaMALSgKuxN0ZwB360rluNVn4pgoCYBZfbKo+ETCqlwymTSVrVKdWjyc6dGUBsxp kw2VCfyjeaRe7LFyw6LKie+gG84BJ2e70qmpqWMMOpyjWpnHHn87aLhao6k4lzQ8aXLRQo3oo tqhuOytBNvVCBnbab2plSOrTtqxyYB6y4B99dAuj4gBjIOecdJ89NvxpnEDo+UnBruiJ7/EVK ljuSg/kJk4WvSgJNY7VDmhItcG/ica8hrfD/S0I4FQEVw9SnWvztqCFnpwBg36XpTztfGrnfP YZbfQR7h6TvcCipsLnh0O0/3MQp22JWkPzDahh71GEme3jV5OLc/vRBNdZjEDNV70LoMtLNO/ apPGJDiMbLAvf3jv6UMyWzm749x5mZxuk6N/0Lgt5hxfnZO4vpH7KhQXBNf4gkiKHLz7MP9/m azyNp6n0zdoMcxxuSXPvNp7Ox2KDWmlVM1y5nPgJVuNwQDrjNnp6j2d/t7hTfDRGMQ2wmBBrP ZObvx7NihtoBCCWALvWjN+01nsi5JC8RlI2hKBExivF+AXacbClK6MkiwKxxII5XT4E823MnU unGYra/AM2a8xFtGbB+RloBvvlh6HbchYrUB1DLtksd0pq6pctOuyEn+QtkSVMJF9YM+iuNYd fOO1FMj9YstvPDrjWi8wXMFaWm2z/KvtEkwXZx0kEZJzu/heqX50H80u1JF/xD8yoMSZ535mK VaOoEWvRyh9FPc7cHaDPrkCXB/eO40mWeM8HqX8X9JEn50VzQ1jm/dFo3rX9bNCuQ9U46dPf Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.17.20; envelope-from=dimech@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:131707 Archived-At: > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 8:30 AM > From: "Marcin Borkowski" > To: "Christopher Dimech" > Cc: "Jean Louis" , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, moasenwood@= zoho.eu > Subject: Re: Quote by Knuth > > > On 2021-07-14, at 22:15, Christopher Dimech wrote: > > > Even if we manage to get computations look like pseudocode, will that > > aid understanding? Not a lot. It would still need time and focus to > > figure out. In mathematics, using prose gets things so complicated > > that you will not understand anything. You need some sort of compact = lexicon > > to absorb some quite complex ideas that cannot be condensed well enoug= h > > using prose. > > I haven't read this thread, just skimmed through a few messages here, > but as a mathematician and a (co)author of two math textbooks I'd like > to add something. > > 1. I think it's best (in math) to use prose first to explain ideas and > then follow with symbolic notation. > > 2. Hardly anyone (in the math world) does it (or even tries), which is > sad. Mostly the mathematics is done mostly in the mind with some expression on paper to connect the ideas. > > > > After completing a building, you remove the scaffolding and clean ever= ything > > out. Much in then hidden. > > This is a nice quote. However, I disagree. If you remove the > scaffolding you make learning way more difficult. Even in research > articles I'd leave traces of it (assuming I'd write any research > articles - not very probable). Depends on the audience. With mathematicians on the topic, I disregard quite a lot of things. It is the same with art like music, painting etc. Tho focus is on the end product. You can make something beautiful without the need to explain too much. Hoping others have the capacity to appreciate. I used to mix things toget= her when I started, but not doing that anymore. Before you try to delve into = code, you need to understand the topic. But you could hint at some non-trivial passages if need be. And then let them think and figure out. As things are becoming more complicated, today's task is more about concis= eness, otherwise there is no end. It is all about the minimum threshold you deci= de to cater for. Most times few cared about how I actually did things. > Best, > > -- > Marcin Borkowski > http://mbork.pl >