From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Dimech Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Survey: Toolbars Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2020 00:43:22 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87o8iv3ac3.fsf@gnus.org> <877dpjp30g.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> <87zh2fnmwq.fsf@gnus.org> <87o8ivumn5.fsf@telefonica.net> <87v9d3nkxk.fsf@gnus.org> <83ft3zrtgy.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="34609"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: abrochard@gmx.com, rms@gnu.org, bugs@gnu.support, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 22 00:45:46 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1krUs6-0008tx-73 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 22 Dec 2020 00:45:46 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39626 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1krUs5-0000Pg-9X for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 21 Dec 2020 18:45:45 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60000) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1krUqM-00081d-4k for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Dec 2020 18:43:58 -0500 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.15]:46883) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1krUqK-0000zQ-6I; Mon, 21 Dec 2020 18:43:57 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1608594202; bh=G4NYIsGkAP7I8ESZWMDkWMlkGvi7GsrPeC1XBnnE9X0=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=d1Ej/EAB94dDxs0XQNCrTkMymDJRP8SX4JVaCia5h8XfDBvgBXWTRaV2jfKGa9F94 k2PKlJECzqt6bYc9ObA5IE2gKhRG2rXfWf3TVSFsLLyrzo7zgewQ41k7BHQAxJ51Hh ntO3tRZk8hJr34I7YslKpHtxcNPW0qeYifmIEs4E= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from [213.165.168.94] ([213.165.168.94]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs16.server.lan [172.19.170.184]) (via HTTP); Tue, 22 Dec 2020 00:43:22 +0100 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: <83ft3zrtgy.fsf@gnu.org> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:GIdL4hBUhJXVN2y2FvJe+VOZnUXEIljfv/Wgkh3ZG81Meh+04yJ6TcIO0LFnE9ESZ4pZK wfljW3tgQgf8y1Nc6z2HIrv/kEjDA04BayQh27m5DgyTsYIYSC/kXRJ+LgUbbnJcw9HFk0QyF/wc /sZo0m0z50JxPdoDxw+jdusFkL0M/Y3EBgkMd6VSzoP363REj2vauJDGc0sXPKLWOMEZPIBmALfi h8kp2mIwZ0rniwCpnosJufEQvsATpKzPQh6B0cmYOXopdMjNjqlycxrlzbpsgRJKE5wqFvbrYNtr 4M= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:14tgdpiPRv4=:IugGtiakwm+0IYoD+KZcMu IdhE6VWDn8diyBcUsdRKOzwvsW9uJG1fcPlc8s7zFo5tPXL+4Xp0JBP+KDgrd/trCsM/3V41x rYUFVg1wG8jZITryCh17mUnWOAcWGkoZq9uNsZv0l7XFGbHin9M+f0SyPghTM02uuMzw3VhpL fZWBNrrtKnq9bwJCxNbUDKj+CJN7f614KQlLsQh9e2GA34oMnZ71Y8TNG3Y+UAKO6f4XEdjXX bafU9jyHJDCL2Z1jwLUYqnLG3dDGnslI17Esft7jm7D0cg032l/hBgX0oIEM/evsg2HZnqYAO VZQIgPvcyev8cymgad2NORSrBSKXWBngcwKbzptr+Jno3HQSn8yWVC6aOQV2SPLb8YcF12kI4 WNOFxubYI9cvSVcEOoIli6uBZI9PpOuhMGzfSbcdpK0ncKfO1d0rSEsMU52tkjLuNYJFudRDg T8lei4XQL42j8STILkk3cYl5II2GGNOtqryWKx36dVSSme6uFtf7X69lxfrIph6I2LwMvGXOY EozUF6XFdf1wYOZL5TLvPnb1VJVA5ZXvAY/gUpFhY/AbtSgTBzGGGjA6Yt0FjDqxyDDnZZqfB D4U96BOb+MUmQ= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.15; envelope-from=dimech@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:261451 Archived-At: > Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 at 10:23 PM > From: "Eli Zaretskii" > To: rms@gnu.org > Cc: dimech@gmx.com, abrochard@gmx.com, bugs@gnu.support, emacs-devel@gnu= .org > Subject: Re: Emacs Survey: Toolbars > > > From: Richard Stallman > > Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2020 00:47:18 -0500 > > Cc: abrochard@gmx.com, bugs@gnu.support, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > > > > I wonder whether the survey stems from lack of vision of emacs > > > admin and developers. For instance, Gcc has a Development Plan. > > > Suggestions for changes to the plan are discussed on the Gcc > > > mailing list and can be approved or rejected by the Gcc Steering > > > Committee. How about Emacs? > > > > GCC has many developers who are paid by various companies. > > That makes it easier to make plans and actually carry them out. > > There's another important difference. GCC implements programming > languages defined by evolving standards that are developed by other > bodies. The evolution of those language standards largely defines the > GCC development plans. Other project, like GDB, Binutils, etc. have > similar traits: they support hardware and software standards developed > elsewhere. > > But Emacs is its own standard, defined by what we put into it, it > depends very little on outside developments, and is only tangentially > affected by those external developments. So those developments cannot > determine our plans anywhere near to how the next C++ Standard affects > GCC development, or the next DWARF2 version and various > debugging-related features in the next generation of CPUs affect GDB > development. You may be correct, but we all have got an indication of what works better= . Emacs could word on setting some standard for the next three years and get a bit closer to development plans that have proved to be much more sustain= able. But this is just my position.