From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Dimech Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Emacs Survey: Toolbars Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2020 20:03:54 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87o8iv3ac3.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="13976"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Jean Louis Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 15 20:06:51 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kpFet-0003X7-Oc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 20:06:51 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45254 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpFes-0001Ed-QC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 14:06:50 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50044) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpFce-00087h-Rs for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 14:04:32 -0500 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.22]:52043) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpFcc-0002G1-G2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 14:04:32 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1608059034; bh=V9zgZMzJSm4WulJIqbTl/3CJDHz42WU3zxUqhUjl5h4=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=jU4m0y+2zasFO3f0S7hPssjWoVRm7T5pVIEpuELcuzDMQ16xYIILZ5Edr5mbb+qfR 8YsspI9ezkrlC6dpVS6KMJHym7HTr3+JFrk+l5+yqC6UUJBfQ4k7lNDBfFpybqMaw8 KJHuL8DUEyG2FcrKuKZhfDSpXVYMwWjHgKaM3tSk= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from [213.165.168.94] ([213.165.168.94]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs15.server.lan [172.19.170.183]) (via HTTP); Tue, 15 Dec 2020 20:03:54 +0100 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:4i3pmpBrP5T3tTb41tqHhS2TFuiz5aYhUV5iVH1eaFiUT5uJz5rX8/7BxfKYgm6bqTNV1 ztpesKCTXd7s0qAh2cY1zMkCQYwPeV8CinQNJK/5/l26s/rYCLMwRiZlC0MeCoowVQyDkXBN+7Wi SeNJm50HVe/DCCEUKZ1CNMAuWjjGb3JsqrhzqZCKn5AkadEHoYx/WxVdjD46oP7lHqLmSEq+xtlQ lsCzGSIgLjyR9Gfvt+YHK11Hbb0G/l0AbbiTyWKnN50/vrUyyqSxJKv78iopBXbe5lUkRht8/P2g OU= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:4yDFWD4hynY=:RK7QF6SUZlaSMEC6HxA8SR ItQlR9Uu1L6W2ARurUimF6GoY9bDn+SHbGSd/6JtzLPLw9QeVv9rOiHENNu6g7zyPY1PKeU7f W/r92DzTJ6fgvxi6Y6Alu2T7HM5QXs1rWMvYpmmoR7W549jCxo0SyGBBYuRRildN21fXSGS9z 4Q0y4jezBypDhhZBzAEHHcnGqjIGzGxkaDyRN+goxOEfKGREvcmD38bLjMn7W0F9CKEeiUSKS k3kpcfx3UgNOMdYaZIfq7CjmfgKYXkj3WS20hLGkTyHqmzX+aFJCkAcWl8JgPG03sO9orDHW/ SyJBopdLuMA5gXXQaHz/mwroS0knYyK32to0WRHl2lj/C6UFUIQp7pSPAJXvfFoKl5SVB+MmK RSGrmLvM7XjzL2kK+c7aYcKDet3P1x6Hqc2Y59ySKyUEGUyaze9oV0JSVTwlt0DCENlVUfgd+ 4f7iZtZ0EuIp8k8PLy986B7dbNPWtkVWHf2v2lpYPabbM65X6DTSdtiA+Aiw+c7gMJxIfQAIC xgOlVRN1fTpdKw/e6WbSxh7/mPtShITKDERGRF5io0qjMCtbyDxSJqsjR3iNb3RaShzLjJryA suMLZ70an43BQ= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.17.22; envelope-from=dimech@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:260909 Archived-At: > Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 at 7:44 PM > From: "Jean Louis" > To: "Stefan Monnier" > Cc: "Lars Ingebrigtsen" , emacs-devel@gnu.org > Subject: Re: Emacs Survey: Toolbars > > * Stefan Monnier [2020-12-15 17:42]: > > For most major modes, it's hard to find a justification for a toolbar, > > and for some major modes, OTOH, it's a no-brainer (e.g. mpc.el). > > But I don't think we've done a good job of making use of the toolbar f= or > > the middle ground. > > For your insights and considerations1, personally toolbar is definitely > great when working with the mouse and interacting with other > applications. Especially when trying to work with one hand it is > great. For staff members who need to save files or open new notes > quickly it is great. Even more icons would be great to have, there is > so much more space. Tool bars make Emacs user friendly for majority of > new users as people are used to using mouse. Absolutely. The argument is not about using the keyboard or using the mou= se. In regards to strain injury, there are two important aspects: 1. Not stretch fingers 2. Not move wrist In addition, if the user normally uses keyboard, it makes sense that he continues using the keyboard, rather than having to switch to the mouse. This is largely agreed among programmers. The problem started when programmers starting demanding for Emacs to focus only on the keyboard. For those who primarily use the mouse, they should continue to use the mouse for most things where the user could use the mouse. As regards development, Emacs could have minor-modes for the following categarisations: 1. Mainly using the Keyboard 2. Mainly using the Mouse 3. Mainly using Querty 4. Mainly using Dvorak Furthermore, most people disregard Accessibility. For instance, KMouseToo= l clicks the mouse whenever the mouse cursor pauses briefly. It was designed to help those wi= th repetitive strain injuries, for whom pressing buttons hurts. KMouseTool also eliminates the = pain caused by clicking the mouse, helping many people to use the computer without pain. And to work with the mouse makes menu-bar a definite requirement - no argu= ments there. > It should even get its customize or defcustom possibility. > >