Org Column in Thunderbird

Org Column in Thunderbird

[Max Nikulin]

Hi,

I am playing with a thunderbird add-on that may add an icon to folder 
view if Org Mode files contains a link to this message. It is not 
polished yet, but I suppose, you may try it

https://github.com/maxnikulin/orco/

Installation requires more steps since it is necessary to setup so 
called native messaging host application that does real job scanning Org 
files for Mention-IDs.

Re: Org Column in Thunderbird

[Ihor Radchenko]

Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> writes:

> I am playing with a thunderbird add-on that may add an icon to folder 
> view if Org Mode files contains a link to this message. It is not 
> polished yet, but I suppose, you may try it
>
> https://github.com/maxnikulin/orco/

Looks interesting.

I do not use Thunderbird and cannot try it, but the idea of backlinks
from third-party apps back to Emacs notes is very promising.

I imagine browser URLs could also indicate if they have associated Org
notes. Or pdfs.

Also, did you announce this anywhere outside Org ML?

Best,
Ihor

Re: Org Column in Thunderbird

[Ihor Radchenko]

You dropped Org ML from the CC. Was it intentional?

Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> writes:

> On 10/06/2022 20:11, Ihor Radchenko wrote:
>> I imagine browser URLs could also indicate if they have associated Org
>> notes. Or pdfs.
>
> It seems, most of PDF viewers do not allow decorations added by users. 
> Even built-in viewers in browsers displays document as privileged 
> content inaccessible by extensions. A kind of workaround is loading of 
> the same pdf.js to a regular page, but it is not really convenient. I am 
> unsure concerning security issues when pdf.js is bundled into an add-on.

AFAIK, https://web.hypothes.is/demos/ somehow works with PDFs in browsers.

>> Also, did you announce this anywhere outside Org ML?
>
> I have no idea where I should announce it since currently it is useful 
> mostly with Org mode. Unsure if e.g. API of Joplin app will allow to get 
> all links of certain kind in all notes.

/r/orgmode I guess.

> Also I am afraid that I may broke something in Thunderbird internals. It 
> has some code for custom columns but docs are rather scarce, so I am 
> unsure if I implemented it properly. It is a reason to take a pause and 
> to wait if my profile would turn into unusable state.

Part of the benefit of the announcement could be having a feedback and
people trying and reporting if you actually broke something :)
Of course, it does make sense to test things locally first and catch the
most obvious issues.

Best,
Ihor

Re: Org Column in Thunderbird

[Max Nikulin]

On 10/06/2022 20:11, Ihor Radchenko wrote:
> Max Nikulin writes:
> 
>> I am playing with a thunderbird add-on that may add an icon to folder
>> view if Org Mode files contains a link to this message. It is not
>> polished yet, but I suppose, you may try it
>>
>> https://github.com/maxnikulin/orco/
> 
> Looks interesting.
> 
> I do not use Thunderbird and cannot try it, but the idea of backlinks
> from third-party apps back to Emacs notes is very promising.

My colleague had a dream of cross-linking mails and notes (irrespective 
to Emacs) several years ago.

> I imagine browser URLs could also indicate if they have associated Org
> notes. Or pdfs.

It seems, most of PDF viewers do not allow decorations added by users. 
Even built-in viewers in browsers displays document as privileged 
content inaccessible by extensions. A kind of workaround is loading of 
the same pdf.js to a regular page, but it is not really convenient. I am 
unsure concerning security issues when pdf.js is bundled into an add-on.

As to browsers, this thunderbird add-on is my experiment with UI in 
browser action popup. When working on LinkRemark I had no idea how to 
add such feature to it. Second level of context menu is inconvenient. 
Menu in popup may be better for adding more features, but I realized it 
quite late.

> Also, did you announce this anywhere outside Org ML?

I have no idea where I should announce it since currently it is useful 
mostly with Org mode. Unsure if e.g. API of Joplin app will allow to get 
all links of certain kind in all notes.

Also I am afraid that I may broke something in Thunderbird internals. It 
has some code for custom columns but docs are rather scarce, so I am 
unsure if I implemented it properly. It is a reason to take a pause and 
to wait if my profile would turn into unusable state.

Re: Org Column in Thunderbird

[Max Nikulin]

On 10/06/2022 21:26, Ihor Radchenko wrote:
> You dropped Org ML from the CC. Was it intentional?

My double failure. At first I replied to the message received directly 
that lacks List-Post header, while usually I response from the newsgroup 
folder, so simple reply has correct address, then I resent message in a 
such way that original Message-ID was lost. Sorry for that.

> Max Nikulin writes:
>> On 10/06/2022 20:11, Ihor Radchenko wrote:
>>> I imagine browser URLs could also indicate if they have associated Org
>>> notes. Or pdfs.
>>
>> It seems, most of PDF viewers do not allow decorations added by users.
>> Even built-in viewers in browsers displays document as privileged
>> content inaccessible by extensions. A kind of workaround is loading of
>> the same pdf.js to a regular page, but it is not really convenient. I am
>> unsure concerning security issues when pdf.js is bundled into an add-on.
> 
> AFAIK, https://web.hypothes.is/demos/ somehow works with PDFs in browsers.

If you mean docdrop.org then it likely uploads PDF documents to the 
server, perhaps to convert it to HTML since I have not noticed traces of 
PDF.js. Due to 502 Bad Gateway response I have not seen it in action. 
(Why are they insisting namely on dropping file without a button to open 
file selection dialog?)

I did not try to say that it is impossible since pdf.js may be used by 
regular pages. Serving documents grabbed from various sources requires 
extreme care to avoid security vulnerabilities. Ideally each document 
should be served from a unique domain to be able to enforce available 
measures like Content-Security-Policy. PDF is rather complex format, may 
include JavaScript, there is chance that some may remain active after 
rendering the document as HTML. In another project dedicated to capture 
of web pages I noticed some problems with attacks through JS embedded 
into HTML pages and the author fixed problems that can be exploited. 
https://github.com/danny0838/webscrapbook/

Reading about sioyek I noticed that it is able to recognize text looking 
like references to citations. Several years ago I have heard about 
converting references formatted using wide spread styles into e.g. 
bibtex entry or lookup in online libraries (mendeley?). It requires 
significant efforts to implement, but it would be a killer feature to 
mark entries in the references section if the user have notes related to 
the paper even when the PDF has no active hyperlinks or at least doi.

However at first similar feature should be added to LinkRemark for 
regular HTTP URLs.

>>> Also, did you announce this anywhere outside Org ML?
>>
>> I have no idea where I should announce it since currently it is useful
>> mostly with Org mode. Unsure if e.g. API of Joplin app will allow to get
>> all links of certain kind in all notes.
> 
> /r/orgmode I guess.

Frankly speaking I forgot about it. The mail list efficiently utilizes 
my "upstream bandwidth" that I am ready to dedicate to Org, so I do not 
follow discussions there.

I read reddit post mostly when there is no better links in search 
results. Sometimes I see mentions of this site in the context of 
discussions related to dark UI patterns (e.g. forcing users to make 
mobile client more "popular" by blocking some topics in mobile 
browsers). However it is not fair to complain concerning the policy of 
such site in a message sent from gmail about a project hosted at github.

I agree that post on reddit could attract more users since significant 
fraction of people prefer instant messengers and web services while 
hating email. The problem here is that my project deals with email, so 
it should be more probable to meet users here.

Actually I do not mind if someone will mention orco on reddit, but 
unsure if I will join the discussion.

>> Also I am afraid that I may broke something in Thunderbird internals. It
>> has some code for custom columns but docs are rather scarce, so I am
>> unsure if I implemented it properly. It is a reason to take a pause and
>> to wait if my profile would turn into unusable state.
> 
> Part of the benefit of the announcement could be having a feedback and
> people trying and reporting if you actually broke something :)
> Of course, it does make sense to test things locally first and catch the
> most obvious issues.

The threshold for new users should not be too high. Requirement of a 
helper application is a significant obstacle. I have not implemented a 
simple installer. I think, I can cross-compile bURL for windows, but it 
requires some changes in code and, more important, different 
installation procedure I have never tried. After first negative 
impression it may be more hard to convince user to try it again.