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* Why have "shell" when there's "term"
@ 2003-06-06 12:57 J Krugman
  2003-06-06 14:13 ` Lute Kamstra
                   ` (3 more replies)
  0 siblings, 4 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: J Krugman @ 2003-06-06 12:57 UTC (permalink / raw)




It seems to me that "M-x term" is in every way superior to "M-x
shell".  What's the point of the latter?

Thanks,

	-Jill

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: Why have "shell" when there's "term"
  2003-06-06 12:57 Why have "shell" when there's "term" J Krugman
@ 2003-06-06 14:13 ` Lute Kamstra
  2003-06-06 15:13   ` Lute Kamstra
  2003-06-06 14:32 ` Hallvard B Furuseth
                   ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Lute Kamstra @ 2003-06-06 14:13 UTC (permalink / raw)


J Krugman <jill_krugman@yahoo.com> writes:

> It seems to me that "M-x term" is in every way superior to "M-x
> shell".  What's the point of the latter?

I'm curious: can you be a bit more specific?  Can you give examples of
things which are done better by `term' then by `shell'?

I've been using `shell' for quite some time and am quite happy with
it.  I just tried `term' for the first time in Emacs 21 and it seemed
broken as a simple ls in bash spat out badly aligned text columns.
IIRC, it used to work in Emacs 20.  Do you use the latter version?

[Mental note: write bug report.]

Lute.

-- 
(spook) => "subversive Firewalls bomb"
(insert-file-contents "~/.signature") => (error "`~/.signature' too rude")

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: Why have "shell" when there's "term"
  2003-06-06 12:57 Why have "shell" when there's "term" J Krugman
  2003-06-06 14:13 ` Lute Kamstra
@ 2003-06-06 14:32 ` Hallvard B Furuseth
  2003-06-07 11:41   ` Lute Kamstra
  2003-06-06 16:50 ` Eric Hanchrow
  2003-06-09 19:12 ` Subhankar Chatterjee
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Hallvard B Furuseth @ 2003-06-06 14:32 UTC (permalink / raw)


J Krugman wrote:

> It seems to me that "M-x term" is in every way superior to "M-x
> shell".  What's the point of the latter?

I just tried M-x term and didn't like it.  Normal Emacs keystrokes were
no longer available, so I couldn't e.g. copy text and yank it elsewhere
the same way as before.  The Info mode says C-c C-k turns on line mode
which makes it more like M-x shell, but that seems to have been
overstating the case.

I'll stay with M-x shell.  That's still basically Emacs, unlike M-x term
which tries not to be.

-- 
Hallvard

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: Why have "shell" when there's "term"
  2003-06-06 14:13 ` Lute Kamstra
@ 2003-06-06 15:13   ` Lute Kamstra
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Lute Kamstra @ 2003-06-06 15:13 UTC (permalink / raw)


Lute Kamstra <Lute.Kamstra@cwi.nl> writes:

[...]

> I just tried `term' for the first time in Emacs 21 and it seemed
> broken as a simple ls in bash spat out badly aligned text columns.

Oops, this just happens in CVS Emacs 21.3.50.  I got lost in my
home-grown version jungle.

Lute.

-- 
(spook) => "Project Monarch arrangements David John Oates"
(insert-file-contents "~/.signature") => (error "`~/.signature' too rude")

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: Why have "shell" when there's "term"
  2003-06-06 12:57 Why have "shell" when there's "term" J Krugman
  2003-06-06 14:13 ` Lute Kamstra
  2003-06-06 14:32 ` Hallvard B Furuseth
@ 2003-06-06 16:50 ` Eric Hanchrow
  2003-06-06 22:11   ` J Krugman
  2003-06-09 19:12 ` Subhankar Chatterjee
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Eric Hanchrow @ 2003-06-06 16:50 UTC (permalink / raw)


In shell mode, all of Emacs is readily avaiable; in term mode, it
isn't.

Here's what I mean: 

* in shell mode, you can easily scroll back to the beginning of the
  buffer with M-<, just like any other buffer; I don't think there's
  any way to do that in term.

* in shell mode, you can copy anything in the buffer -- your input or
  the computer's output -- with M-w, just like any other buffer; I
  don't think there's any way to do that in term.

Etc. etc.

-- 
People studying literature rarely say anything that would be of the
slightest use to those producing it.
        -- Paul Graham

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: Why have "shell" when there's "term"
  2003-06-06 16:50 ` Eric Hanchrow
@ 2003-06-06 22:11   ` J Krugman
  2003-06-06 23:10     ` Barry Margolin
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: J Krugman @ 2003-06-06 22:11 UTC (permalink / raw)


In <87y90f9mm7.fsf@blarg.net> Eric Hanchrow <offby1@blarg.net> writes:

>In shell mode, all of Emacs is readily avaiable; in term mode, it
>isn't.

>Here's what I mean: 

>* in shell mode, you can easily scroll back to the beginning of the
>  buffer with M-<, just like any other buffer; I don't think there's
>  any way to do that in term.

>* in shell mode, you can copy anything in the buffer -- your input or
>  the computer's output -- with M-w, just like any other buffer; I
>  don't think there's any way to do that in term.

>Etc. etc.

You can easily do all that in term.  Just go into line mode (C-c
C-j), and when you're done with doing Emacs stuff, go back to char
mode (C-c C-k).

But I guess the answer to my question is that Emacs has these two
highly redundant functions because each has a constituency...

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: Why have "shell" when there's "term"
  2003-06-06 22:11   ` J Krugman
@ 2003-06-06 23:10     ` Barry Margolin
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Barry Margolin @ 2003-06-06 23:10 UTC (permalink / raw)


In article <bbr3io$oh$1@reader1.panix.com>,
J Krugman  <jill_krugman@yahoo.com> wrote:
>But I guess the answer to my question is that Emacs has these two
>highly redundant functions because each has a constituency...

At least 90% of Unix programs don't make use of full-screen features, and
this is what M-x shell is designed to support.  term is for applications
that depend on a video terminal for their UI.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barry.margolin@level3.com
Level(3), Woburn, MA
*** DON'T SEND TECHNICAL QUESTIONS DIRECTLY TO ME, post them to newsgroups.
Please DON'T copy followups to me -- I'll assume it wasn't posted to the group.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: Why have "shell" when there's "term"
  2003-06-06 14:32 ` Hallvard B Furuseth
@ 2003-06-07 11:41   ` Lute Kamstra
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Lute Kamstra @ 2003-06-07 11:41 UTC (permalink / raw)


Hallvard B Furuseth <h.b.furuseth(nospam)@usit.uio(nospam).no> writes:

> I just tried M-x term and didn't like it.  Normal Emacs keystrokes were
> no longer available, so I couldn't e.g. copy text and yank it elsewhere
> the same way as before.  The Info mode says C-c C-k turns on line mode
                                              ^^^^^^^
                                              C-c C-j does this

[There is a bug in the info documentation.  It is fixed in CVS.]

> which makes it more like M-x shell, but that seems to have been
> overstating the case.

Lute.

-- 
(spook) => "Comirex ISEC NASA"
(insert-file-contents "~/.signature") => (error "`~/.signature' too rude")

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: Why have "shell" when there's "term"
  2003-06-06 12:57 Why have "shell" when there's "term" J Krugman
                   ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2003-06-06 16:50 ` Eric Hanchrow
@ 2003-06-09 19:12 ` Subhankar Chatterjee
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Subhankar Chatterjee @ 2003-06-09 19:12 UTC (permalink / raw)



Hello,

J Krugman <jill_krugman@yahoo.com> writes:

> It seems to me that "M-x term" is in every way superior to "M-x
> shell".  What's the point of the latter?

Try the Emacs shell or [M-x eshell]

> 	-Jill
Regards
-Subhankar


-- 
blue pill or red pill
--

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2003-06-09 19:12 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 9+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2003-06-06 12:57 Why have "shell" when there's "term" J Krugman
2003-06-06 14:13 ` Lute Kamstra
2003-06-06 15:13   ` Lute Kamstra
2003-06-06 14:32 ` Hallvard B Furuseth
2003-06-07 11:41   ` Lute Kamstra
2003-06-06 16:50 ` Eric Hanchrow
2003-06-06 22:11   ` J Krugman
2003-06-06 23:10     ` Barry Margolin
2003-06-09 19:12 ` Subhankar Chatterjee

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