From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Nikolaj Schumacher Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: basic question: going back to dired Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:47:48 +0200 Message-ID: References: <4884DC7F.6060406@gmail.com> <819feff4-76e3-4bf8-9ece-7b47f099efc2@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <87mykaw8sb.fsf@nonospaz.fatphil.org> <4885D7FE.5050300@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1216734636 9974 80.91.229.12 (22 Jul 2008 13:50:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:50:36 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, Miles Bader To: "Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)" Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 22 15:51:24 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KLIGh-000409-E4 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:51:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55309 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KLIFo-0003jO-Af for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:50:12 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KLIDz-0003IG-CW for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:48:19 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KLIDw-0003G9-Lt for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:48:18 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=32840 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KLIDw-0003Fx-Ei for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:48:16 -0400 Original-Received: from fmmailgate02.web.de ([217.72.192.227]:46891) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KLIDv-00020u-Sv for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:48:16 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp05.web.de (fmsmtp05.dlan.cinetic.de [172.20.4.166]) by fmmailgate02.web.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01F37E6C0372; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:48:15 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from [136.199.55.225] (helo=aragorn.uni-trier.de) by smtp05.web.de with asmtp (WEB.DE 4.109 #226) id 1KLIDu-0006RX-00; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:48:14 +0200 In-Reply-To: <4885D7FE.5050300@gmail.com> (Lennart Borgman's message of "Tue\, 22 Jul 2008 14\:52\:14 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.1 (gnu/linux) X-Sender: n_schumacher@web.de X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18xeieguBbOq1GybsEBfT7HuyVba6TmWETLYqlW 9NBQV5rqdwZRUAWvMg1wkNa+fy9InOGamaVwgPJLsB97U7K5/d fKLf1wNdxcz4hbs1+6nQ== X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:55799 Archived-At: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" wrote: >> It's not that "keybinding" is somehow extra good, it's that "shortcut" >> is unusually bad. >> >> The name "shortcut" in most apps carries the implication that it's >> somehow an unusual method of invoking something, which is only used in >> rare circumstances for the absolute most heavily used commands (in these >> apps, the "usual" method is a menu entry). This is not true in emacs -- >> keybindings are heavily used, and are "normal". > > Yes, the definition of "key binding" in Emacs is in itself quite good, > but that does not help new users that are used to the word "shortcut" > for similar things in other programs. > > At least it did not help me. Of course the term shortcuts is something reminiscent of GUI programs. In a text editor menu entries like `compile' might have a shortcut, but calling C-b a shortcut seems weird. I don't think there even has to be a name for it ... Help says: "It is bound to C-b, .", which sounds reasonable. So what problems could a new user have? I can think only of one: Finding out _how_ to configure the keys. I just took a look at Eclipse (because that happened to be installed) and it doesn't talk about shortcuts in the preferences, either. It just has a table with "command" and "key sequence" on a page called "Keys", yet its easy to find, because it's in a central place. Maybe custom should support keymaps, and M-x customize-keys could solve that problem... regards, Nikolaj Schumacher