From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Sam Steingold Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Lisp and Guile Date: 05 Aug 2002 12:10:30 -0400 Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <200207200035.g6K0ZAb27891@aztec.santafe.edu> <200207212015.g6LKF4c00874@aztec.santafe.edu> <200207251807.g6PI75d07615@aztec.santafe.edu> <874renlito.fsf@zagadka.ping.de> <200207271853.g6RIre710837@aztec.santafe.edu> <200207310554.g6V5ssc16508@aztec.santafe.edu> <200208022214.g72MELZ01879@aztec.santafe.edu> <200208042325.g74NPtM03391@aztec.santafe.edu> Reply-To: sds@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1028563827 2863 127.0.0.1 (5 Aug 2002 16:10:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 16:10:27 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17bkR8-0000k4-00 for ; Mon, 05 Aug 2002 18:10:26 +0200 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 17bklp-0003hE-00 for ; Mon, 05 Aug 2002 18:31:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17bkRk-0000tG-00; Mon, 05 Aug 2002 12:11:04 -0400 Original-Received: from h005.c001.snv.cp.net ([209.228.32.119] helo=c001.snv.cp.net) by fencepost.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17bkRF-0000qU-00 for ; Mon, 05 Aug 2002 12:10:33 -0400 Original-Received: (cpmta 28491 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2002 09:10:31 -0700 Original-Received: from 65.114.186.226 (HELO glip.premonitia.com) by smtp.premonitia.com (209.228.32.119) with SMTP; 5 Aug 2002 09:10:31 -0700 X-Sent: 5 Aug 2002 16:10:31 GMT Original-To: rms@gnu.org X-Attribution: Sam X-Disclaimer: You should not expect anyone to agree with me. Mail-Copies-To: never In-Reply-To: <200208042325.g74NPtM03391@aztec.santafe.edu> Original-Lines: 46 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3.50 Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:6297 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:6297 > * In message <200208042325.g74NPtM03391@aztec.santafe.edu> > * On the subject of "Re: Emacs Lisp and Guile" > * Sent on Sun, 4 Aug 2002 17:25:55 -0600 (MDT) > * Honorable Richard Stallman writes: > > > We should extend Guile so that its mechanism for handling variables > > dynamically is up to the job; then we should use that mechanism for > > these variables. > > yeah - let's extend Guile to be a kind of Common Lisp. > > I am talking about a small change in features that already exist. The > issue at hand is for features Common Lisp does not have. such as? dynamic (special) variables? > A lot of _really_ smart people contributed to the design of Common Lisp. > It is a shame that you want to throw away all that good work and > redesign everything from scratch. > > You mean smart people like Guy Steele, who is also co-designer of Scheme? You are missing the point, I am afraid. Scheme _is_ a very nice language. It is very well designed for the purpose for which it was designed - CS education. The problem with Scheme is that, without significant extensions (object system, condition system, dynamic variables, multiple values, SETF &c), it is not suitable for large projects like Emacs. Yes, all such extensions can be done, and there are _several_ different incompatible object systems for Scheme, i.e., Scheme is at the stage where Common Lisp was 20 years ago, when there were several CL object systems. The whole point is that lots of thought went into things that CL _has_ and R5RS does _not_ have. It is a shame that you want to discard all these design assets and re-do all the great work that has already been done. -- Sam Steingold (http://www.podval.org/~sds) running RedHat7.3 GNU/Linux Bus error -- please leave by the rear door.