From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "brettg@posteo.net" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#34390: package.el says "Obsolete" when it means "No Longer Used" Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2019 11:42:35 -0600 Message-ID: References: <87pns2p6ny.fsf@russet.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--_com.lge.email_1838619316571760" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="184762"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: 34390@debbugs.gnu.org, Phillip Lord To: "Basil L. Contovounesios" Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 08 18:43:39 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1gsABf-000lvZ-I2 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2019 18:43:39 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60656 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gsABe-0003SZ-EQ for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2019 12:43:38 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55199) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gsAB7-0003BZ-MO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2019 12:43:06 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gsAB6-0004FA-KW for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2019 12:43:05 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:40833) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gsAB6-0004Ed-5y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2019 12:43:04 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gsAB4-0003t6-1g for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2019 12:43:03 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <87pns2p6ny.fsf@russet.org.uk> Resent-From: "brettg@posteo.net" Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2019 17:43:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 34390 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 34390-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B34390.154964777214928 (code B ref 34390); Fri, 08 Feb 2019 17:43:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 34390) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Feb 2019 17:42:52 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40114 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gsAAu-0003sh-0Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2019 12:42:52 -0500 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:40164) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gsAAp-0003sO-NH for 34390@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2019 12:42:50 -0500 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B747816005E for <34390@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 8 Feb 2019 18:42:40 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1549647760; bh=/Of4wbLLN8dJdcRcFy3DZcW0/3IOjoSVaL+paq4GKtI=; h=Date:Subject:From:To:Cc:From; b=Hw9PamrQHT5zfV71lgEv9DO1AEcmp6TPMXUTUT6i4NMmwGt+bpdT2Myg4ld27B9ns tgN6+u8zCpUjqLCbRHUYCEkhffRsAsjl5G4wPkV6pc4WHSXwHrGaj/RcsvmjSRq39C FWVC7TFDUtcMPKMRbvLm5GoLjFBtMWbLX2bcmN7h/67A6eKp5BNbIBhxES202PC60L tnuiHOgscjnaymn0ov9QftIXlaAsVHlx1kZa2Uy9VmBx6xMYfXy1gOZN7qs1gf+E79 fzS7BOLrDpJHi71mCKlXGMRF2rrWc84PCIZtQc6wHcAIU46GtjRSS+hArFXaxu278V oqrei0oTD3bVg== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 43x2ZR07GXz6tmH; Fri, 8 Feb 2019 18:42:38 +0100 (CET) X-Priority: 3 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:155272 Archived-At: ----_com.lge.email_1838619316571760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The statement of superseded as used by Guix is that it has a reference pointer to what it is superseded by, and will either point to a different package definition of a new version of the original package. I think as long as the terminology is clear, and what it is superseded by is iterated properly, we are in good shape. Brett Gilio ------ Original message------From: Basil L. ContovounesiosDate: Fri, Feb 8, 2019 11:34 AMTo: Brett Gilio;Cc: 34390@debbugs.gnu.org;Phillip Lord;Subject:bug#34390: package.el says "Obsolete" when it means "No Longer Used" Brett Gilio writes: > Basil L. Contovounesios writes: > >> How about "shadowed" or similar? > > The Guix package manager uses a term "superseded." I quite find this > term to be useful and nice. SGTM. Though if one wanted to be really pedantic I think they could argue that a package (either installed or uninstalled) could be superseded by another package (again regardless of whether it's installed), whereas shadowing can only occur if both packages/versions are installed, IIUC. -- Basil ----_com.lge.email_1838619316571760 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
The statement of superseded as used by Guix is that it has a reference pointer to what it is superseded by, and will either point to a different package definition of a new version of the original package.

I think as long as the terminology is clear, and what it is superseded by is iterated properly, we are in good shape.

Brett Gilio

------ Original message------
From: Basil L. Contovounesios
Date: Fri, Feb 8, 2019 11:34 AM
To: Brett Gilio;
Cc: 34390@debbugs.gnu.org;Phillip Lord;
Subject:bug#34390: package.el say s "Obsolete" when it means "No Longer Used"

Brett Gilio  writes:

> Basil L. Contovounesios writes:
>
>> How about "shadowed" or similar?
>
> The Guix package manager uses a term "superseded." I quite find this
> term to be useful and nice.

SGTM.  Though if one wanted to be really pedantic I think they could
argue that a package (either installed or uninstalled) could be
superseded by another package (again regardless of whether it's
installed), whereas shadowing can only occur if both packages/versions
are installed, IIUC.

-- 
Basil
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