From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dave Love Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: please consider emacs-unicode for pervasive changes Date: 06 Sep 2002 00:59:12 +0100 Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <200208090754.g797s6s11972@rum.cs.yale.edu> <200208130030.JAA26246@etlken.m17n.org> <200209030615.PAA10378@etlken.m17n.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1031270381 18699 127.0.0.1 (5 Sep 2002 23:59:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 23:59:41 +0000 (UTC) Cc: handa@etl.go.jp, raeburn@raeburn.org, monnier+gnu/emacs@rum.cs.yale.edu, emacs-devel@gnu.org Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17n6XE-0004rM-00 for ; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 01:59:40 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 17n778-0006Xq-00 for ; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 02:36:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17n6Yi-0005gd-00; Thu, 05 Sep 2002 20:01:12 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17n6Wz-0005RF-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Sep 2002 19:59:25 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17n6Wx-0005R3-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Sep 2002 19:59:24 -0400 Original-Received: from albion.dl.ac.uk ([148.79.80.39]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17n6Wu-0005Qf-00; Thu, 05 Sep 2002 19:59:20 -0400 Original-Received: from fx by albion.dl.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17n6Wm-0004qE-00; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 00:59:12 +0100 Original-To: rms@gnu.org Original-Lines: 48 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.2 Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:7585 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:7585 Richard Stallman writes: > RMS complained about even chaneglogs getting changed, > > I recall these changes but not what caused them. Were they caused by > the emacs-unicode branch? Yes, in the case you complained to me about (on the branch, and it was actually edits of handa's did originally). However, I seem to remember there were other problems, probably due to people using unification-on-decode, contrary to the warnings. > If so, what exactly was the nature of the change that occurred? Was > the change a matter of replacing one correct iso-2022 representation > with a different but equally correct representation for the same > characters? Yes, since it was Latin-1 v. Latin-2 if I remember correctly. If it had been Chinese v. Japanese, it might not have been correct. > but it will > certainly screw various Emacs 21 lisp/{international,language} files. > > As part of convertng Emacs to use unicode for most characters, > won't we also change these files to use unicode? They mostly haven't been touched, and don't need to be. You can't generally change them to Unicode (as opposed to utf-8-emacs) because they may contain non-Unicode characters. Also, if you want, say, to maintain the distinction between Japanese and Chinese in HELLO, you don't want to unify that. > So they won't be clobbered. If anyone else starts working on that code, they better understand the issues anyhow... > Editing the non-unicode Emacs 21 files might change them, indeed. (Those and similar files.) That's just what I'm warning about. > Is this an inevitable consequence of the unification done by > Unicode? No. The fact that you can't prevent it for i/o of general iso-2022 is a missing feature, as handa said. (Not that I know the design for that.) I thought it was a design feature you insisted on that the character space is much bigger than Unicode for that sort of reason.