[dortmann@lsil.com: emacs customization suggestion: 'customize-existing']

[dortmann@lsil.com: emacs customization suggestion: 'customize-existing']

[Richard Stallman]

Would someone like to do this?

------- Start of forwarded message -------
Sender: dortmann@lsil.com
To: rms@gnu.org
Subject: emacs customization suggestion: 'customize-existing'
From: Daniel Ortmann <dortmann@lsil.com>
Date: 04 Feb 2004 10:16:42 -0600
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Sir,

Here is an idea for your consideration:

Suggestion:

    Add a customization option such as 'customize-existing' which fills
    a customize buffer only with currently customized settings.  A
    related command for faces might be 'customize-existing-faces'.

Problem Solved:

    Moving a laptop between the office and home requires customization
    changes in gnus, for example.  The variables which need to change
    are in different groups, however, and are hard to find.

    A 'customize-existing' command would put all of the variables into
    one buffer for quick locating and changing.

A Minor Detail:

    The settings in the buffer should be sorted first by their group,
    and then alphabetically within the group.

- -- 
Daniel Ortmann, LSI Logic, 3425 40th Av NW, Suite 200, Rochester MN 55901
work: Daniel.Ortmann@lsil.com / 507.535.3861 / 63861 int / 8012.3861 gdds
home: ortmann@venturecs.net / 507.288.7732, 2414 30Av NW #D, Rochester MN 55901
gpg/pgp public key: http://wwwkeys.us.pgp.net
jabber: daniel_ortmann@jabber.org / dortmann@jabber.co.lsil.com
------- End of forwarded message -------

Re: [dortmann@lsil.com: emacs customization suggestion: 'customize-existing']

[Kim F. Storm]

> Problem Solved:
> 
>     Moving a laptop between the office and home requires customization
>     changes in gnus, for example.  The variables which need to change
>     are in different groups, however, and are hard to find.


For that specific problem, I use the following code snippet at the
top of my .emacs file:

[At home my laptop gets an IP address in the 10.22.33 subnet;
 while at work, I get something else]

(setq at-home-p
      (if (fboundp 'network-interface-info)
	  (let* ((info (network-interface-info "eth0"))
		 (ip (and info (car info))))
	    (and ip
		 (= (aref ip 0) 10)
		 (= (aref ip 1) 22)
		 (= (aref ip 2) 33)))))

Then I simply add tests 

 (if at-home-p ...home_setup...   ...work_setup...)

around settings (like which SMTP server to use) that differs
at home and at work.

-- 
Kim F. Storm <storm@cua.dk> http://www.cua.dk

Re: [dortmann@lsil.com: emacs customization suggestion: 'customize-existing']

[Daniel Ortmann]

Can this be extended to handle the customization settings in a system
wide way?


storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) writes:

> > Problem Solved:
> > 
> >     Moving a laptop between the office and home requires customization
> >     changes in gnus, for example.  The variables which need to change
> >     are in different groups, however, and are hard to find.
> 
> 
> For that specific problem, I use the following code snippet at the
> top of my .emacs file:
> 
> [At home my laptop gets an IP address in the 10.22.33 subnet;
>  while at work, I get something else]
> 
> (setq at-home-p
>       (if (fboundp 'network-interface-info)
> 	  (let* ((info (network-interface-info "eth0"))
> 		 (ip (and info (car info))))
> 	    (and ip
> 		 (= (aref ip 0) 10)
> 		 (= (aref ip 1) 22)
> 		 (= (aref ip 2) 33)))))
> 
> Then I simply add tests 
> 
>  (if at-home-p ...home_setup...   ...work_setup...)
> 
> around settings (like which SMTP server to use) that differs
> at home and at work.
> 
> -- 
> Kim F. Storm <storm@cua.dk> http://www.cua.dk
> 

-- 
Daniel Ortmann, LSI Logic, 3425 40th Av NW, Suite 200, Rochester MN 55901
work: Daniel.Ortmann@lsil.com / 507.535.3861 / 63861 int / 8012.3861 gdds
home: ortmann@venturecs.net / 507.288.7732, 2414 30Av NW #D, Rochester MN 55901
gpg/pgp public key: http://wwwkeys.us.pgp.net
jabber: daniel_ortmann@jabber.org / dortmann@jabber.co.lsil.com

Re: [dortmann@lsil.com: emacs customization suggestion: 'customize-existing']

[Kim F. Storm]

Daniel Ortmann <dortmann@lsil.com> writes:

> Can this be extended to handle the customization settings in a system
> wide way?
>

What about adding this to your .emacs file:

(setq custom-file
     (if at-home-p "~/.emacs.custom.home" "~/.emacs.custom.work"))

(load custom-file)

 
> 
> storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) writes:
> 
> > 
> > (setq at-home-p
> >       (if (fboundp 'network-interface-info)
> > 	  (let* ((info (network-interface-info "eth0"))
> > 		 (ip (and info (car info))))
> > 	    (and ip
> > 		 (= (aref ip 0) 10)
> > 		 (= (aref ip 1) 22)
> > 		 (= (aref ip 2) 33)))))
> > 

-- 
Kim F. Storm <storm@cua.dk> http://www.cua.dk

Re: [dortmann@lsil.com: emacs customization suggestion: 'customize-existing']

[Kevin Rodgers]

Richard Stallman wrote:

> Would someone like to do this?
> 
> ------- Start of forwarded message -------
> Sender: dortmann@lsil.com
> To: rms@gnu.org
> Subject: emacs customization suggestion: 'customize-existing'
> From: Daniel Ortmann <dortmann@lsil.com>
> Date: 04 Feb 2004 10:16:42 -0600
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> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0
> 	tests=USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA
> 	version=2.55
> X-Spam-Level: 
> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp)
> 
> Sir,
> 
> Here is an idea for your consideration:
> 
> Suggestion:
> 
>     Add a customization option such as 'customize-existing' which fills
>     a customize buffer only with currently customized settings.  A
>     related command for faces might be 'customize-existing-faces'.

How would that be different from what `M-x customize-customized' does?

-- 
Kevin Rodgers

Re: [dortmann@lsil.com: emacs customization suggestion: 'customize-existing']

[Richard Stallman]

    >     Add a customization option such as 'customize-existing' which fills
    >     a customize buffer only with currently customized settings.  A
    >     related command for faces might be 'customize-existing-faces'.

    How would that be different from what `M-x customize-customized' does?

I tried looking for such an existing function, but I could not
remember its nam and missed it in the list of completions of
customize-...  Now that I see it, customize-customized might be what
he wants.  But not necessarily exactly what he wants.

Perhaps we could use something to customize all the options that have
non-default customizations, which is a little different from
customize-customized.

Re: [dortmann@lsil.com: emacs customization suggestion: 'customize-existing']

[Per Abrahamsen]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

> Perhaps we could use something to customize all the options that have
> non-default customizations, which is a little different from
> customize-customized.

How is it different?  Or rather, what do you mean by "non-default
customizations"? 

Re: [dortmann@lsil.com: emacs customization suggestion: 'customize-existing']

[Richard Stallman]

    > Perhaps we could use something to customize all the options that have
    > non-default customizations, which is a little different from
    > customize-customized.

    How is it different?  Or rather, what do you mean by "non-default
    customizations"? 

customize-customized shows you the variables that have unsaved
customizations.

This proposed command would also show you the variables that have
customize settings that are saved.

Re: [dortmann@lsil.com: emacs customization suggestion: 'customize-existing']

[Per Abrahamsen]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

>     > Perhaps we could use something to customize all the options that have
>     > non-default customizations, which is a little different from
>     > customize-customized.
>
>     How is it different?  Or rather, what do you mean by "non-default
>     customizations"? 
>
> customize-customized shows you the variables that have unsaved
> customizations.
>
> This proposed command would also show you the variables that have
> customize settings that are saved.

customize-saved also exists.  Combining them is trivial, but I'm not
sure the extra functionality is worth the extra command.

;;;###autoload
(defun customize-touched ()
  "Customize all user options that have been set through customize."
  (interactive)
  (let ((found nil))
    (mapatoms (lambda (symbol)
		(and (or (get symbol 'customized-face)
			 (get symbol 'customized-face-comment)
                         (get symbol 'saved-face)
                         (get symbol 'saved-face-comment))
		     (custom-facep symbol)
		     (push (list symbol 'custom-face) found))
		(and (or (get symbol 'customized-value)
			 (get symbol 'customized-variable-comment)
                         (get symbol 'saved-value)
			 (get symbol 'saved-variable-comment))
		     (boundp symbol)
		     (push (list symbol 'custom-variable) found))))
    (if (not found)
	(error "No touched user options")
      (custom-buffer-create (custom-sort-items found t nil)
			    "*Customize Touched*"))))

Re: [dortmann@lsil.com: emacs customization suggestion: 'customize-existing']

[Kevin Rodgers]

Per Abrahamsen wrote:
 > Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
 >>    > Perhaps we could use something to customize all the options that have
 >>    > non-default customizations, which is a little different from
 >>    > customize-customized.
 >>
 >>    How is it different?  Or rather, what do you mean by "non-default
 >>    customizations"?
 >>
 >>customize-customized shows you the variables that have unsaved
 >>customizations.
 >>
 >>This proposed command would also show you the variables that have
 >>customize settings that are saved.
 >
 > customize-saved also exists.  Combining them is trivial, but I'm not
 > sure the extra functionality is worth the extra command.
 >
 > ;;;###autoload
 > (defun customize-touched ()
 >   "Customize all user options that have been set through customize."
...

Why not have 1 command, customize-changed, that by default shows the
unsaved variables (like customize-customized does now) but with a prefix
arg shows either the saved variables (like customize-saved) or both
saved and unsaved variables (like customize-touched)?  After all, the
only real difference is the predicate used in the mapatoms function.

Re: [dortmann@lsil.com: emacs customization suggestion: 'customize-existing']

[Per Abrahamsen]

Kevin Rodgers <ihs_4664@yahoo.com> writes:

> Why not have 1 command, customize-changed, that by default shows the
> unsaved variables (like customize-customized does now) but with a prefix
> arg shows either the saved variables (like customize-saved) or both
> saved and unsaved variables (like customize-touched)?  

I do not believe that one command that does two things depending on a
prefix argument, is easier to understand for the end user than two
commands which each does only a single thing.

Re: [dortmann@lsil.com: emacs customization suggestion: 'customize-existing']

[Richard Stallman]

    Why not have 1 command, customize-changed, that by default shows the
    unsaved variables (like customize-customized does now) but with a prefix
    arg shows either the saved variables (like customize-saved) or both
    saved and unsaved variables (like customize-touched)?

I think we should have just one command that shows both the saved and
unsaved customizations.  Since each variable shows whether it is saved
or not, this command will be useful for those who want to find only
the saved customizations, and for those who want to find only the
unsaved customizations.

Having just one command in place of the present two will reduce the
overall complexity, and that is desirable, particularly for the kind
of user that the Custom interface is meant for.

I think we should use the name customize-changed-options for this, and
we should rename the existing command named customize-changed-options
to customize-new-options.  That name gives a clearer picture of the
command's purpose.

While one could argue pedantically that the name customize-new-options
is incorrect, since not all the options it shows you are new, I think
we should not forego such a good name for pedantic reasons.  (And if
anyone should care, the pedantic argument has a response, that any
option that shows up in this command is there because of something new
in Emacs.)

Re: [dortmann@lsil.com: emacs customization suggestion: 'customize-existing']

[Per Abrahamsen]

I think we should keep customize-customized.  You can think of it as a
save alternative to the "Options -> Save options" menu item.  It
allows the user to examine the changes he has made before saving them.

Using combined command for that would make it likely that the changed
but unsaved options would be hard to find among the old
customization.  I personally have 83 saved customizations, find a few
new ones among them would be work.

I have no problem dropping the "only saved" command, the number of
options you set in a single session is likely to be moderate, and thus
won't drown out the old ones.

Re: [dortmann@lsil.com: emacs customization suggestion: 'customize-existing']

[Kim F. Storm]

Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk> writes:

> I think we should keep customize-customized.  You can think of it as a
> save alternative to the "Options -> Save options" menu item.  It
> allows the user to examine the changes he has made before saving them.

IMO customize-unsaved would be clearer.

customize-customized really doesn't indicate to me that it only covers
the unsaved customizations; it sounds more like "all customizations".

-- 
Kim F. Storm <storm@cua.dk> http://www.cua.dk

Re: [dortmann@lsil.com: emacs customization suggestion: 'customize-existing']

[Richard Stallman]

    I think we should keep customize-customized.  You can think of it as a
    save alternative to the "Options -> Save options" menu item.  It
    allows the user to examine the changes he has made before saving them.

Then let's rename it to view-customizations-to-save.
The current name doesn't indicate clearly what the command does.

Re: [dortmann@lsil.com: emacs customization suggestion: 'customize-existing']

[Per Abrahamsen]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

>     I think we should keep customize-customized.  You can think of it as a
>     save alternative to the "Options -> Save options" menu item.  It
>     allows the user to examine the changes he has made before saving them.
>
> Then let's rename it to view-customizations-to-save.
> The current name doesn't indicate clearly what the command does.

That would be the first customize command whose name does not start
with "custom".

Re: [dortmann@lsil.com: emacs customization suggestion: 'customize-existing']

[Jason Rumney]

Per Abrahamsen wrote:

> Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> 
>>    I think we should keep customize-customized.  You can think of it as a
>>    save alternative to the "Options -> Save options" menu item.  It
>>    allows the user to examine the changes he has made before saving them.
>>
>>Then let's rename it to view-customizations-to-save.
>>The current name doesn't indicate clearly what the command does.
> 
> 
> That would be the first customize command whose name does not start
> with "custom".

Then how about custom-view-unsaved

Re: [dortmann@lsil.com: emacs customization suggestion: 'customize-existing']

[Per Abrahamsen]

Jason Rumney <jasonr@gnu.org> writes:

> Then how about custom-view-unsaved

Or "customize-unsaved-customizations", customize-unsaved-changes" or
just "customize-unsaved".  I think it is pretty obvious that one of
the things you can do with unsaved customizations is to save them.

The major problem with customize-customized is that it refer to an
internal state name "customized" which is not really part of the user
interface.

Re: [dortmann@lsil.com: emacs customization suggestion: 'customize-existing']

[Reiner Steib]

On Thu, Feb 19 2004, Per Abrahamsen wrote:

> Jason Rumney <jasonr@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> Then how about custom-view-unsaved
>
> Or "customize-unsaved-customizations", customize-unsaved-changes" or
> just "customize-unsaved".  I think it is pretty obvious that one of
> the things you can do with unsaved customizations is to save them.

It would be nice to have menu entries (under "Options") for
`customize-customized' and the new command.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- PGP key available via WWW   http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: [dortmann@lsil.com: emacs customization suggestion: 'customize-existing']

[Richard Stallman]

    Or "customize-unsaved-customizations", customize-unsaved-changes" or
    just "customize-unsaved".

I think `customize-unsaved-changes' is cleanest of those three.  In a
pedantic sense, `customize-unsaved-customizations' is more accurate,
but it is more cumbersome.

Re: [dortmann@lsil.com: emacs customization suggestion: 'customize-existing']

[Kim F. Storm]

Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk> writes:

> Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> >     I think we should keep customize-customized.  You can think of it as a
> >     save alternative to the "Options -> Save options" menu item.  It
> >     allows the user to examine the changes he has made before saving them.
> >
> > Then let's rename it to view-customizations-to-save.
> > The current name doesn't indicate clearly what the command does.
> 
> That would be the first customize command whose name does not start
> with "custom".

What about customize-view-unsaved or customize-unsaved-options ?

-- 
Kim F. Storm <storm@cua.dk> http://www.cua.dk

Re: [dortmann@lsil.com: emacs customization suggestion: 'customize-existing']

[Richard Stallman]

    > Then let's rename it to view-customizations-to-save.
    > The current name doesn't indicate clearly what the command does.

    That would be the first customize command whose name does not start
    with "custom".

It is ok if the name does not start with "custom".
It would be marginally better if it did start with "custom",
but I can't think of a good name that starts that way.

If you can think of a better name that starts with
"custom", we can use that.  But let's not pick an unclear name
merely to have it start with "custom".