From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Per Abrahamsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Getting more info on a variable in Customize buffers Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 10:24:51 +0100 Organization: The Church of Emacs Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1104831328 10392 80.91.229.6 (4 Jan 2005 09:35:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 09:35:28 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 04 10:35:18 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1Cll5y-0002GO-00 for ; Tue, 04 Jan 2005 10:35:18 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CllH9-00074r-B0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2005 04:46:51 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1Cll8f-00067Y-Qs for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2005 04:38:06 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1Cll8e-000677-Cv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2005 04:38:04 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cll8d-00066p-VI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2005 04:38:04 -0500 Original-Received: from [80.91.229.2] (helo=main.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Clkvy-00044D-8t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2005 04:24:58 -0500 Original-Received: from list by main.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1Clkvx-0004Iw-00 for ; Tue, 04 Jan 2005 10:24:57 +0100 Original-Received: from sheridan.dina.kvl.dk ([130.225.40.227]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 04 Jan 2005 10:24:57 +0100 Original-Received: from abraham by sheridan.dina.kvl.dk with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 04 Jan 2005 10:24:57 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Lines: 30 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: sheridan.dina.kvl.dk X-Face: +kRV2]2q}lixHkE{U)mY#+6]{AH=yN~S9@IFiOa@X6?GM|8MBp/ Mail-Copies-To: nobody User-Agent: Gnus/5.110002 (No Gnus v0.2) Emacs/21.3 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:yi4SmFUQOqRG9z82Hekkx4JWOJo= X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:31803 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:31803 Stefan Monnier writes: >> I probably don't fully understand, although I think I follow you. Sounds >> like an implementation problem to me - or perhaps a design problem? > > The designer might call it a feature rather than a problem. > > I do tend to think that it was a mistake to design something that looks like > an elisp variable and which happens to be an elisp variable in 99% of the > cases but which may be something else. I kind of agree, I always thought there instead would be many more "defsomething". The :get, :set and :init were, if I remember right, introduced by XEmacs people for use with specifiers. And since I didn't really care about XEmacs (and certainly didn't understood specifiers to write a defspecifier) I let them have their way. And when it was there, it also got (ab)used in Emacs for minor modes. It should have been part of a define-minor-mode instead, but as I remember there already is was one of those. It is simply too convenient to use these hooks to overload defcustom, rather then define new "def-" whatever. There also is a patch floating around here to overload defcustom for keymaps as well. Again, I can't come up with a good API for a "defkeymap", and wouldn't find the time to implement it anyway.