From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Per Abrahamsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Eliminating "changed in Emacs outside of Customize" Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 15:32:52 +0100 Organization: The Church of Emacs Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1107269037 1826 80.91.229.2 (1 Feb 2005 14:43:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 14:43:57 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 01 15:43:57 2005 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CvzFt-0003GS-N7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 15:43:50 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CvzSp-0002RW-J3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 09:57:11 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1CvzPs-0001Iy-F8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 09:54:10 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1CvzPc-0001B0-2s for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 09:53:58 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CvzPb-00018A-H1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 09:53:51 -0500 Original-Received: from [130.225.40.227] (helo=sheridan.dina.kvl.dk) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Cvz5M-0004bu-Cj; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 09:32:56 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sheridan.dina.kvl.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E9E513F1A; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 15:32:54 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from sheridan.dina.kvl.dk ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (sheridan [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20132-01; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 15:32:52 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: by sheridan.dina.kvl.dk (Postfix, from userid 304) id 723D813DA0; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 15:32:52 +0100 (CET) Original-To: rms@gnu.org X-Face: +kRV2]2q}lixHkE{U)mY#+6]{AH=yN~S9@IFiOa@X6?GM|8MBp/ In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Tue, 01 Feb 2005 08:30:22 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110002 (No Gnus v0.2) Emacs/21.3 (gnu/linux) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at dina.kvl.dk X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-MailScanner-To: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:32705 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:32705 Richard Stallman writes: > > Could you tell us the reason why you designed Custom to recognize a > > state of "changed in Emacs outside of Customize"? > > If you .emacs, or some third party code you activate from ".emacs", > contains "(setq foo 42)" and you change and save "foo" from customize, > you changes to the variable through customize will be overwritten next > time you start Emacs. > > Are you saying your concern was specifically for the case > where foo is set outside Custom *from the init file*? Yes, directly and indirectly. > What about the case where the user just evals M-: (setq foo 42) RET > while running Emacs? I suspect that is much rarer. > If instead it were > described as "Set but not saved", exactly as if the user had used > Customize to set it to 42, do you see any problem that would happen? Any command that set the variable interactively is ok. I believe part of the manu bar code use "setq" or "custrom-set-variable" depending on whether it is called interactively or not. > In order for customize to work non-surprisingly, it has to be the only > interface for changing the variable. > > Why do you think so? In particular, if changes outside Custom > were treated as if they had happened within Custom, what problem > do you envision? Was this unclear: If you .emacs, or some third party code you activate from ".emacs", contains "(setq foo 42)" and you change and save "foo" from customize, you changes to the variable through customize will be overwritten next time you start Emacs. ?