From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Riley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r99650: Put scroll-bar on right by default on UNIX. Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 12:00:41 +0100 Organization: aich tea tea pea dicky riley dot net Message-ID: References: <87ocitw2dl.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87mxy9zzoq.GNU's_Not_Unix!%yavor@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1268651743 19461 80.91.229.12 (15 Mar 2010 11:15:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 11:15:43 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 15 12:15:38 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nr8Gl-0000jc-6U for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 12:15:35 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35156 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Nr8Ge-00024f-HB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 07:15:28 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Nr8GZ-00024Q-Hk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 07:15:23 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=41598 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Nr8GX-00024I-5W for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 07:15:22 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nr8GV-0006OW-5U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 07:15:21 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:34364) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nr8GU-0006OM-RI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 07:15:19 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nr8GS-0000ci-FG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 12:15:16 +0100 Original-Received: from 85.183.18.158 ([85.183.18.158]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 12:15:16 +0100 Original-Received: from rileyrgdev by 85.183.18.158 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 12:15:16 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 48 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 85.183.18.158 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:121994 Archived-At: Yavor Doganov writes: > Chong Yidong wrote: >> Every graphical user interface created in the last X years puts the >> scroll bar on the right. > > Not true -- on GNUstep it is by default on the left (although it can > be controlled via the NSScrollViewInterfaceStyle user default which > was implemented at least 3-4 years ago). GnuStep is the benchmark? Sheesh ... > > David Kastrup wrote: >> But the scrollbar is on the left for a reason: _if_ you use the mouse >> for editing, you'll use it more often than not on the left (until Eli's >> work gets merged). And the larger the windows are made horizontally, >> the more of a nuisance it is to move the mouse. > > This makes sense to me. I suspect that's one of the reasons why NeXT > made such decision. > It makes no sense to me. Most people I watch, and myself, position the mouse on the right hand side of something in which we freetype. The only time I would use a mouse in emacs would be to hilite a url maybe or to move the scroll bar and it makes far more sense for that to be on the right. Still, if GnuStep has it on the left, well, .... For me the real reason is this : I read and write left to write. I dont want a chunk of the left hand side of my screen taken by a control I rarely use. It seems so obvious that I kind of wonder if I am losing the plot here and missing something so terribly obvious. But trawling back through the thread all I see to counter this and obvious consistency benefits is that GnuStep does it on the left (with dus respect almost nothing uses GnuStep) and that it minimises mouse movement in an application that is primarily keyboard driven and then ONLY if the mouse is on the left to start with. I'm at a loss to see how those "for the left" think it any way balances out. Still, clearly there are a core element who feel the left is somehow the place and I suspect the decision is made. There's probably not more to add - and thanks for the discussion. Emacs is a wonderful product.