From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: goncholden Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Netiquette is way to go Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 23:25:15 +0000 Message-ID: References: <83h74rxze0.fsf@gnu.org> <83bkuzxvur.fsf@gnu.org> <878rq2gyoc.fsf@yahoo.com> Reply-To: goncholden Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="1622"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Po Lu , Eli Zaretskii , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Jean Louis Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Jun 13 01:26:11 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o0WyA-0000Dt-16 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 01:26:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34456 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0Wy8-0002YU-Mt for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 12 Jun 2022 19:26:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50236) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0Wxa-0002WV-Ca for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Jun 2022 19:25:34 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-4325.protonmail.ch ([185.70.43.25]:16705) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0WxT-0003gq-Tj; Sun, 12 Jun 2022 19:25:33 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1655076324; x=1655335524; bh=FZV+QISW7S9eA3bglJBGqK3esofQKfvgaUaaBPBC68s=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To: References:Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To: Feedback-ID:Message-ID; b=NRai2VlLWF+psaLxu84018WNVo7b7ZGjGBnfyqYLp7IVHEUrSr71Xu0pq8rk7wpk2 uQC2iYpS4I2PUg6+M25D0NVRxdWOUHzDmI+rvs6HS66b6nkjSAm1S4ef7tIfHzGRQh mF3AfzHFE8TXg2Jb27vyYVLxv99rx0GOOMHryPXWxlaqDrQA9KY6pX+OvyYaBQvfTs 8FpKlMUJvBsVVaeMdRgFl4LKycbazZ0XUEaG9o/3mmIoE3x2PiD8kRG60lyMikP0Mz 6c5+zK0WSDcGRrZy8i+Y5PMIjwxpkKH7bCBU3FWHXg73HUR4QzlbADUgrxsPN4NGig Xhn0lK4opU5Cg== In-Reply-To: Feedback-ID: 43053548:user:proton Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.43.25; envelope-from=goncholden@protonmail.com; helo=mail-4325.protonmail.ch X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:137752 Archived-At: ------- Original Message ------- On Monday, June 13th, 2022 at 6:13 AM, Jean Louis wrote: > * goncholden goncholden@protonmail.com [2022-06-12 20:50]: > > > Correct. It is much better than the easy dodging of the problem > > that insists on reformatting the whole codebase so as to adhere with > > some design spucification of an editor. Because the attitude of > > some of the current maintainers is that if I do not like it, choose > > another editor so we can continue with our way of doing things. > > > I have fully understood your problem even before reading the > subsequent discussion. > > On this planet we human have specific rules of behavior, manner or > etiquette. There is something called netiquette as well, for network > related communication. > > On GNU mailing lists we strive, but not force, to adhere to the below > guidelines. > > GNU Kind Communications Guidelines > https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/kind-communication.html > > For me, I totally understand your style of talking and did not find > anything offensive. This may be because I have spent time in parts of > world with similar communication style. There are parts of world where > heavy profanities are used to greet familiar people and it means > nothing. Come on now. I worked in England, the United States, and France. Do you r= eally think they conquered the world by being nice? Perhaps when inside th= eir own country. Everywhere else, it doubt that very much. > I can fully understand Drew and Eli, as your style of talking is > simply not proper for everybody and everywhere. I will tell you about netiquette. There has been a tendency for prescripti= ve and rigid advice based on personal ideologies, rather than listening abo= ut the struggles of users in whatever difficulties they are encountering. = When one is telling time and time again about an unsolved problem, why do m= aintainers continue to forcefully insist that it makes no sense to disable = automatic indentation or automatic re-indentation? One time these things d= id not exist and people managed their projects quite well even then. But n= ow people have got so used to them that they have become totally dependent = on them. Their world view has changed so drastically that if someone else = wants to do it differently, it must surely be nonsense. How can you speak of netiquette when the real problems are not raised on th= e agenda, falling into a spiral of silence. To put it naively as a pessimi= st conclusion of what will happen in spite of protests here and there in th= at we will probably continue to slide toward some kind of apocalypse awaiti= ng large catastrophes to awaken us. I don't accept any optimism when someb= ody tries to convince me that in spite of all the problems there is a light= at the end of the tunnel. My instant reply is yes and it's probably anoth= er train coming towards us. > You are in global communication exchange. Mailing list spans any > countries on the planet. We have different ways of expressing > ourselves and we have to find common ways. GNU Kind Communication > Guideline is a way to reach that goal. > > It is good reading books about international business manners, that > will give you idea how to get communication across in such way that it > does not get rejected due to your local style of expressions. > Issue is to find global common and acceptable style of > communication. Maybe following references may help further: Please understand this, you will not ever find a global common and acceptab= le style of communication. But learn to accept all forms of styles of com= munication. This is why I have continued the discussion that got us to an = understanding of the automatic processes within emacs that have to be disab= led so I can do what is needed. Go ask many people and tribes across the world (e.g. the Massai ) if they w= ant to move to america, the uk, or russia. They would say, definitely not,= never. In the international theatre, there are no rules to say that we mu= st play the game with your rules. Kind Regards > Etiquette in technology - Wikipedia > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etiquette_in_technology > > 10 netiquette rules to maintain a good online reputation | NortonLifeLock > https://us.norton.com/internetsecurity-kids-safety-what-is-netiquette.htm= l > > 10 Netiquette Rules to Know and Follow > https://www.verywellmind.com/ten-rules-of-netiquette-22285 > > What is Netiquette? 20 rules Internet Etiquette Rules > https://me-en.kaspersky.com/resource-center/preemptive-safety/what-is-net= iquette > > -- > Jean > > Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: > https://www.fsf.org/campaigns > > In support of Richard M. Stallman > https://stallmansupport.org/