From: "T.V Raman" <raman@google.com>
To: Rudolf =?euc-jis-2004?Q?Adamkovi=AA=CC?= <salutis@me.com>
Cc: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net>,
Gabriel <gabriel376@hotmail.com>,
Yuri Khan <yuri.v.khan@gmail.com>,
Emacs developers <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: On the adoption of transient.el
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2021 08:42:12 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <p91wnox6z3f.fsf@google.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <m2czqqb2iz.fsf@me.com> ("Rudolf =?euc-jis-2004?Q?Adamkovi=AA=CC=22's?= message of "Sat, 07 Aug 2021 01:02:12 +0200")
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Rudolf Adamkovi00 <salutis@me.com> writes:
For my own use case with Emacspeak, it was imperative that I be able to
move around and read the transient buffer, see how I solved it in
emacspeak here:
https://github.com/tvraman/emacspeak/blob/master/lisp/emacspeak-transient.el#L183
Basically I advice transient--show-buffer to snapshot the updated
transient buffer contents, and then display that when the transient is
suspended. Note: I'm not advocating this as a mainstream solution, but
more as an example of prototyping behavior that may be needed for more
than just the emacspeak user.
> This is useful, thank you! C-n/C-p and C-s/C-r solved. Selection with
> C-SPC still does not work, e.g. one still cannot copy some text for a
> bug report or personal notes. Further, and I forgot to mention this in
> my original message, the new transient UI renders the help system,
> such as the glorious C-h k, useless. Not being able to copy text or
> describe all keys is not what I expect to see in the official parts of
> vanilla Emacs.
>
> R+
>
> "T.V Raman" <raman@google.com> writes:
>
>> Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes: I recently
>> discovered thanks to the transient/magit author that once you
>> enable navigation via arrows in transient popups, it also gives you
>> isearch of the transient. We then discovered a bug where using
>> isearch to find a transient option and pressing enter wasn't
>> working, but Jonas has since fixed that and it works.
>> transient-enable-popup-navigation is a variable defined in
>> ¡®transient.el¡¯. Its value is t Original value was nil You can
>> customize this variable. This variable was introduced, or its
>> default value was changed, in version 0.2.0 of the transient
>> package. Whether navigation commands are enabled in the transient
>> popup. While a transient is active the transient popup buffer is not
>> the current buffer, making it necessary to use dedicated commands to
>> act on that buffer itself. If this non-nil, then the following
>> features are available: - "<up>" moves the cursor to the previous
>> suffix. "<down>" moves the cursor to the next suffix. "RET"
>> invokes the suffix the cursor is on. - "<mouse-1>" invokes the
>> clicked on suffix. - "C-s" and "C-r" start isearch in the popup
>> buffer.
>>> Rudolf Adamkovi00 <salutis@me.com> writes:
>>>> Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes:
>>>>> On the other hand something has always felt off about transient,
>>>>> in the sense that it is breaking some expected behaviour or
>>>>> couldn't pin-point yet, but just unconsciously stumble over.
>>>> This is exactly how I feel about the "modern" interfaces in
>>>> Emacs. I reported a bug in Embark recently, and because I could
>>>> not select and copy the text, I ended up re-typing the text that
>>>> was right in front of me in Emacs. Say what? For me, Emacs is a
>>>> program where I expect to never waste time re-typing
>>>> anything. Magit has a similar feel to it, and I can never be sure
>>>> if the program will allow me to select text in the diverse parts
>>>> of its user interface. In my opinion, such uncertainty is bad for
>>>> power users. I would expect this from Apple or Microsoft software,
>>>> because their latest ¡°UX designers¡± surely know better than
>>>> anyone, but in Emacs?
>>> I am not sure if this is something specific to modern interfaces,
>>> or rather an overreaching when it comes to binding. After a while I
>>> managed to "pin-point" what was irritating me, and it was the
>>> missing ability to search (something that I seem to do so passively
>>> that i didn't even notice it). Having C-s work is especially useful
>>> when there are a lot of transient options. This cannot be solved by
>>> binding C-s manually, as just because that might work for me, there
>>> is some other behaviour someone else is expecting (eg. your example
>>> of selecting and copying text). What I understand transient and
>>> certain other packages do is basically override most keys, even
>>> those it doesn't use. This is more invasive than special-mode, that
>>> just doesn't bind self-insert-command to most keys. What I wonder
>>> is why this is done/why it might be necessary.
>>>> R+
>> -- Thanks, --Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research) 7©3 Id:
>> kg:/m/0285kf1 0Ü8
--
Thanks,
--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
7©4 Id: kg:/m/0285kf1 0Ü8
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-08-07 15:42 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 69+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-07-03 21:13 On the adoption of transient.el Gabriel
2021-07-05 14:24 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-07-05 16:09 ` Gabriel
2021-07-05 17:00 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-07-05 19:16 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-05 16:50 ` Yuri Khan
2021-07-05 17:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-05 17:29 ` Yuri Khan
2021-07-05 17:49 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-07-05 18:09 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-08-01 20:19 ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2021-08-01 21:08 ` T.V Raman
2021-08-01 21:24 ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-03 13:07 ` Jonas Bernoulli
2021-08-03 20:00 ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-14 3:17 ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-14 12:54 ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-08-14 20:45 ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-15 21:57 ` John Yates
2021-08-16 1:05 ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-16 1:35 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-08-16 2:36 ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-01 21:25 ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-04 11:22 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-08-04 15:56 ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-08-04 18:56 ` T.V Raman
2021-08-04 19:57 ` Jesse Millwood
2021-08-04 21:45 ` T.V Raman
2021-08-05 7:01 ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-05 8:59 ` Eric S Fraga
2021-08-05 9:23 ` Tim Cross
2021-08-05 10:37 ` Eric S Fraga
2021-08-05 11:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-05 14:45 ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-08-05 16:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-05 23:17 ` Juri Linkov
2021-08-06 6:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-06 2:13 ` Phil Sainty
2021-08-05 23:20 ` Juri Linkov
2021-08-06 12:39 ` John Yates
2021-08-06 14:42 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-08-06 17:20 ` Omar Polo
2021-08-10 7:22 ` Juri Linkov
2021-08-10 10:32 ` John Yates
2021-08-08 1:21 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-08-10 7:15 ` Juri Linkov
2021-08-10 12:40 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-08-11 6:58 ` Juri Linkov
2021-08-13 3:06 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-08-08 1:42 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-08-10 7:18 ` Juri Linkov
2021-08-10 8:16 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-08-11 6:56 ` Juri Linkov
2021-08-05 9:38 ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-05 9:51 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2021-08-05 14:33 ` T.V Raman
2021-08-05 14:55 ` Eric S Fraga
2021-08-05 15:05 ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-06 23:02 ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2021-08-07 2:03 ` T.V Raman
2021-08-07 3:15 ` Phil Sainty
2021-08-07 10:19 ` Jonas Bernoulli
2021-08-07 15:42 ` T.V Raman [this message]
2021-07-05 19:51 ` Jim Porter
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2022-07-31 9:08 Manuel Uberti
2022-07-31 13:25 ` T.V Raman
2022-07-31 20:03 ` Juri Linkov
2022-08-21 16:04 ` Juri Linkov
2022-08-01 3:32 ` Richard Stallman
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