From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "T.V Raman" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Opening Up More Keymaps Re: Standardizing more key bindings? Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2020 14:34:41 -0700 Message-ID: References: <24436.53239.437810.270641@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> <24436.58187.698211.262192@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> <24436.58533.871640.683323@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb18030 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6249"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Dmitry Gutov , EMACS development team , npostavs@gmail.com, thibaut.verron@gmail.com, Stefan Monnier To: chad Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 30 23:35:26 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kNjkz-0001WT-T9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 23:35:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59910 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNjky-0007I1-Tk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 17:35:24 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47624) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNjkP-0006rb-5z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 17:34:49 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pg1-x543.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::543]:34897) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNjkM-0003jA-5o for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 17:34:48 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pg1-x543.google.com with SMTP id g29so2019124pgl.2 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 14:34:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xPk8/5Bj1SkP5hWBv/ODczbswhKxgJrCgakLR6nIBfk=; b=ZWmaNdnLy9MAgcWC+57gjpWToUfm/bsAh+4cHSzZ4eRQqL/gIL4J5RWeIabfgh1/q1 vE5516k4ROemqeGcG63aPtcWNsUa6ck84PpoRsiIpiY9OQ5tPojz3+W9YsgmxtSZJu/i lkciNuaDgDn702EYrAqx83f4DtoZaf5Z7yBryVvVbEUtVvBJIgEUH5GDm76PATAJQpxM A6+ISX4W5WY2m9fslQlMlKgfgVz/piNrpJacUAqaSW+3HJ+lZho1CZjUDBraxkUZK3Dh hhRLH0e9GKnCpv5oxEAWSIli9tA4yQ35b1BeWGse/1+JLKOMLSvWFvKNGPBulvyKgESi vBxg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xPk8/5Bj1SkP5hWBv/ODczbswhKxgJrCgakLR6nIBfk=; b=mX20XmH5/TIpCP2jFKOL4y4E8sCW4akemKx3LEYiSANdwUbM4ORSY2zSAxvtu4ZiJh pAnwsAxcPWEXwaFwlSVPueb+lgv6mnWehGzyRIXeLECBw/Y/wd1sNPFQVlqFqZ4YpNYF XakE+BA3ecvcbajkMIoYuLCP2Qceg2Ip5N0HUrJZkZkj5q+CWGg1pivr8tJAgIG5HGzb ckpL5bcH3mYWoGJusyEahc/ooC2i6Ob9X3e5Gyby/KgZSKC4RiuwLLwOYKXyJLNt5gvk LAKfdlCk067Av9eG51LE8fWr+/Fn2O+pmq4V1IDfdXeABiqPen0tQF9bvXMjOVLgjTNr 7z2Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53238TLzYtTQXxhecuTIu1AGqsLidc/3wYZpRQ/Jp8rkU9EKdJT8 rDqELgRhZzvI+PqJUpllei0sug== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwumgleziEn1UBxHIsltN5t4hGmnRoceZsaGVAmamP7gZKktXRWTVoblgcXxO+2bhgdxJ95Rw== X-Received: by 2002:aa7:9556:0:b029:13e:d13d:a0fe with SMTP id w22-20020aa795560000b029013ed13da0femr4237047pfq.26.1601501684160; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 14:34:44 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from raman-glaptop.localdomain (c-24-4-174-65.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [24.4.174.65]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h10sm3279532pfh.217.2020.09.30.14.34.42 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 30 Sep 2020 14:34:43 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by raman-glaptop.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 13930) id 05FEAC20A9B; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 14:34:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (chad's message of "Wed, 30 Sep 2020 14:00:42 -0700") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::543; envelope-from=raman@google.com; helo=mail-pg1-x543.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -180 X-Spam_score: -18.1 X-Spam_bar: ------------------ X-Spam_report: (-18.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.499, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256807 Archived-At: chad writes: that's a good perspective, especially it comes with the test of time. Also, for a tty-user, it's interesting to think of the conditions under which you would suspend emacs. I suspect it happens less and less, since: 1. Linux TTY has multiple VCs, 2. Linux TTY users who are using Emacs have the option of running with a terminal multiplexer like screen and friends, the above likely reduce how often you might hit C-z to suspend emacs so you can use your TTY for something else. > FWIW, a few weeks back I proposed changing C-z away from suspend-frame > for a similar goal, and got generally negative feedback about gui > versus terminal differences. The proposal also involved C-S-z, which > doesn't work in some terminal environments, so that probably skewed > feedback somewhat. > > From experience, I've been rebinding C-z (to a keymap) for around 30 > years now, and stopped having any trouble with it around 27 years ago. > (At the time, I would frequently use both hardware terminals, > especially vt-100, vt-101, and vt-220's, and sometimes DOS or OS/9 > systems with serial modems.)=20 > > In practical terms, I suspect the conflict between "C-z is SIGSTOP" > and "C-z is undo" is the biggest fault line between "typical personal > computer users" and "unix-ish users", and thus is effectively a "third > rail" of Emacs HCI discussions. That might just be pessimistic > assumptions talking, though. > > ~Chad > --=20 Thanks, --Raman =817=A94 Id: kg:/m/0285kf1 =950=DC8