From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "T.V Raman" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2021 18:38:44 -0700 Message-ID: References: <16338bdc2497fc51c6fb6d54ab370bfb@webmail.orcon.net.nz> <831r59kyhf.fsf@gnu.org> <834ka4k15m.fsf@gnu.org> <83y27gijmz.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb18030 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="9832"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Phil Sainty , acm@muc.de, eliz@gnu.org, joaotavora@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 02 03:40:46 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mWU18-0002LD-Bn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 03:40:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52274 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWU17-0005et-Cf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 21:40:45 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59420) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWTzM-0004t0-Tv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 21:38:59 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pj1-x1036.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::1036]:53767) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWTzK-0006at-23 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 21:38:56 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pj1-x1036.google.com with SMTP id r7so7685864pjo.3 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 18:38:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=spovued5p7/l3W2+9z3xlav+Yp7l8CxzQwdqIpJ+jCY=; b=hY9zpjhEAFbTr3UzI750/c8DHFLZqOVTtWcYB264pZl2wrLZ+KkZbG7XmeRfNz4Bib pPN2nftWh4ydIX8AGBR3g1Rw7V3HOPu5N6CJ5VuvICf4VMRZha21vxauAQ8PRVuxY8Cs r+e9s1Ua5sg/sUFRu3PXRQy77mhXKy2hLM28HsZCCmAsPH7d+1d9ql8E3uTt+8pFgmVE 2Nl3tYMdeEFQydg6ayPlj2rjxnJUoxZTqHqqJGsqIF4VYBjB6qNDFpJaKWabYCPBIkM/ Ob7zDv7DaV+Vl8TDPW58Gy6q6t1FZbXndyQ7X2GxoOEvyq+7iihVTsS+N9pByOexNCE/ /XMA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=spovued5p7/l3W2+9z3xlav+Yp7l8CxzQwdqIpJ+jCY=; b=eor4I70etarQbL6q+a+a1a8Xrw1HiT1zSANprDrJJxEa5Y4CIOFlab/kwb6VsMhTcY gOLTZ9PBTAFm3XWH8S1XrRv5EKBMGU4wsOxPEeRJlqJu9w8GP7AR9u25JAAvQ87dgGsQ BzbjNkRIPdFtSHfA7dwPyFJbUmIO00ulHd/mvyzNM9SFgPkytxcsBBxKi19UQBYB2oIt xUeys48JtX/f/PboTTSMueRgCttWLeLTCZJLZOQV9HPOqULiTguEnPZFR9YYR22NvedB wT+CJqXjYhqgyrh5zhEKR0GmkB6Nj0jXAPPT0Rfk0ZbBPRW1yeeZbM6NGev8OWpaC5Kj cwFA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531Q4iOBm8bcDS1K6/l6nvUQYtCv8taPytfE66yt2zk8inXyhMUg uaoYOZiLewK9jhndAUNmpa4UTanozFl7EQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzrOUDzkDrxbDcwSM+W6HKDFNjDm8g8EB/9i+/R7aOHQiDTGIbhm0HVJuqVg+Pz9ekKFexGGg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:17ca:: with SMTP id me10mr23257306pjb.171.1633138727455; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 18:38:47 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from raman-glaptop (c-24-4-174-65.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [24.4.174.65]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d18sm7566263pgk.24.2021.10.01.18.38.46 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 01 Oct 2021 18:38:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Fri, 01 Oct 2021 18:38:02 -0400") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::1036; envelope-from=raman@google.com; helo=mail-pj1-x1036.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -175 X-Spam_score: -17.6 X-Spam_bar: ----------------- X-Spam_report: (-17.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:276035 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: I'd like to highlight this line from RMS: If the screen does not match the buffer, that is chaos. and enshrine it as a key tenet in everything we design going forward. Note that there are corner cases where the above can already be violated via display text properties and overlays. > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > The first use-case is to do with the "s" library, and finding > > a way to rename all of that code with a longer prefix without > > requiring other libraries currently requiring "s" to change... > > Not solely with the `s' library; there are a few others. > But basically I think you are right about this. > And this is indeed the main intended use in Emacs itself. > > > The second use-case, and the one I think will prove to be FAR > > more common if this goes ahead, is this: Some people simply want > > to read and write shorter symbol names in their code. > > I would not object to making rules about naming or usage conventions > for the shorter names, in the second use-case. > > We can't follow those conventions for the first use-case. They would > not work. But it is ok to treat the two use-cases differently. > > > Instead, we would need two things: > > > 1. A way of displaying long symbols in the desired short form, > > such that the buffer contains the actual symbol, but the > > user sees the short symbol (i.e. some kind of replacing > > display). > > > 2. Something analogous to abbrev which recognises when someone > > starts typing a symbol with one of the configured short > > prefixes, and expands it to be the full name (but per (1) > > visually displayed as the short form that they typed). > > I think #2 might be a good idea, but #1 would lead to horrible > confusion. If the screen does not match the buffer, that is chaos. --=20 Thanks, --Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research) =817=A94 Id: kg:/m/0285kf1 =950=DC8