From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "T.V Raman" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Question collaborative editing - Wikipedia reference Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2020 18:41:24 -0700 Message-ID: References: <83eemji6e8.fsf@gnu.org> <20201001141144.GO4797@protected.rcdrun.com> <20201001160136.chwmpollk4d3qc2e@Ergus> <20201004175447.GG15516@protected.rcdrun.com> <87362tvnil.fsf@gmail.com> <20201004194815.GH15516@protected.rcdrun.com> <11EB917D-3276-4D34-8DCD-2336E8062950@mit.edu> <20201005040245.GJ15516@protected.rcdrun.com> <20201005084441.GB4453@protected.rcdrun.com> <87zh50lhda.fsf@red-bean.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb18030 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="12382"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Ergus , Fermin , Jean Louis , Caio Henrique , Noam Postavsky , Emacs developers , Karl Fogel , Stefan Monnier , Eli Zaretskii To: Qiantan Hong Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 06 03:42:04 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kPbzQ-00037t-0A for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 06 Oct 2020 03:42:04 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39512 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kPbzP-0007h9-14 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 05 Oct 2020 21:42:03 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34614) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kPbys-0007DI-1N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Oct 2020 21:41:30 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pf1-x434.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::434]:38106) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kPbyq-0004xG-EM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Oct 2020 21:41:29 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pf1-x434.google.com with SMTP id l126so8085068pfd.5 for ; Mon, 05 Oct 2020 18:41:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=MFt/k2ucBwwc9zij893A6BwrOZbjRtfqRv8wN2592/s=; b=XkiTFnJn5G/ASMEKepTBG+AWhnAPJQHBXxbZUw/gHtHHCweX6AKChG/CxoVnRr8HPL o0+581BSzHpPNwQDO4k45endfnrmtCM7N2A6hFb8xfbaQZAmDZujtufwIGbWtowT/qMc XVi/O6oL6wLqmzQsXkANYNIdI9E6mIt2BTiOnvKim8cPY6rxyxURCtF7IwVpPcZG3Enx HWom35uIgIT8WqcatGMG5AysuFvNkElFgecZ+TlAxFe4aMxzYUOhk2cthtQ7MIwLX/1Y h4Kul6FSkqXO2defUTqhTstsr0gUvA9bwi2m7pzyfiweYAPD43IwAtgJLG6dcC93no9O 1sug== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=MFt/k2ucBwwc9zij893A6BwrOZbjRtfqRv8wN2592/s=; b=Yd0cZHPnHbEs7BX+0KiwDeI9AiwDi0o3u5GnsB1TY5LTMHO0Ml7RiQbHBz1nkZiRmi 5BOdmr3Lolp3q3n8gURMShNGCOftxa0Pf6M+CMjoViJEb8W/AkTK+yzKnybxXkcKNYQh JO9k2XYzNcs9f1f67ZfIFJ3128iR/sJm4HiC8XYJ9YoV1P96lQkfzX4IgdcKHZD21xQI OXK7Hs8mbhWK8kG/44sClv/CD2jTyvVcROw04S6A/VlUgfyaNxzhwNEdTbQLJA00BGSq VeQ62pkdjGmSKFhKCg1FAiXcLhpu5BgPeeqK2ipq5AQbHPDHTanooWttxhamlcvJwqKZ gTfA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5326S4+AOFjD9IoTqyz+9f6iTcaiOSVbfSgJ0TSP2gaughZK8lLM HsFXPScU3xPqXycqNN0V5FjoRw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyGsApTC2ZiOZR3yN2pIf0a3p7akeAusWKrsmuscz0pW6wME2T5Ax55PkqaGXlmrAUbAdYsKg== X-Received: by 2002:a63:801:: with SMTP id 1mr2090201pgi.48.1601948486424; Mon, 05 Oct 2020 18:41:26 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from raman-glaptop.localdomain (c-24-4-174-65.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [24.4.174.65]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r206sm1263562pfr.91.2020.10.05.18.41.25 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 05 Oct 2020 18:41:25 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by raman-glaptop.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 13930) id 47406C21ED8; Mon, 5 Oct 2020 18:41:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Qiantan Hong's message of "Tue, 6 Oct 2020 01:03:57 +0000") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::434; envelope-from=raman@google.com; helo=mail-pf1-x434.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -175 X-Spam_score: -17.6 X-Spam_bar: ----------------- X-Spam_report: (-17.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:257151 Archived-At: Qiantan Hong writes: Another option might be jabber -- it had many design goals that are relevant here. Jabber used a light-weight XML serialization which I suspect is nicely isomorphic to s-expressions in lisp. Once you have a jabber stream established, the back-and-forth communication are xml serializations of s-expressions.>> But this has 3 main problems. >>=20 >> 1) On one hand such services require some servers (to work like google >> spreadsheet) and need to be provided somehow... something difficult as I >> don't think gnu or fsf have resources to maintain a service like that >> and provide it. >>=20 >> 2) On the other hand it will be better if the service is somehow >> distributed in order to give more privacy-security but also to reduce >> the load of the servers... I still can't find any infrastructure we can >> use, cause most of the peer-to-peer libraries are for C++, javascript, >> Node.js and so on (example: webrtc). Just on yesterday I found >> n2n... But I am not a web specialist so it requires a lot of >> experimenting time for me. >>=20 >> 3) The other workflow (create a local server for others) is the >> "simplest" approach at the moment. But that is a problem for many use >> cases due to dynamic ip addreses, firewalls, opening ports and so on. It >> is fine for a class room or company, but not for working from home. > > On this topic, I=A1=AFm considering supporting sending the traffic over > IRC. Seems that it solves all those problem, what do you guys think? > > The process will be that one user create a channel with a random > name, say on freenode.net, then they share the channel name > with other user (maybe via IRC as well!). Others can then join the > channel, and it behaves basically like TCP. To avoid spamming > the same authentication protocol for TCP (to be implemented) can > also work on IRC. The messages from user without authentication > are simply discarded. > --=20 Thanks, --Raman =817=A94 Id: kg:/m/0285kf1 =950=DC8