From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: uzibalqa Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Pressing ? does not allow window scrolling through the list of info commands Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2023 19:11:01 +0000 Message-ID: References: <83bkgoguea.fsf@gnu.org> <837crcgra6.fsf@gnu.org> <83mt07ee2n.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="16427"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 07 21:11:29 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qHqrY-000475-VK for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 07 Jul 2023 21:11:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qHqrO-0008Nx-OP; Fri, 07 Jul 2023 15:11:18 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qHqrN-0008MW-Lx for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Jul 2023 15:11:17 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-4324.protonmail.ch ([185.70.43.24]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qHqrL-0001hb-BY; Fri, 07 Jul 2023 15:11:17 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=proton.me; s=protonmail; t=1688757072; x=1689016272; bh=dsp4t/iRiI5nQEAjYE6qqjtMY26b+sZ/JEch+Ax9rcI=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=PsrgiBdGhpnO+E0hLGeCpIB8Zx1dmwEaF1onPLR1qltb6Rhupep3gMJaW0xKU2nj9 e6mTaZJr/lOdRUuX39dJTav1a5inpOIfjbKkOZfMC2J3VV6Eg0M48CReYYPvaRltcE rH0aKNYJZjiZKJHbRoO1hEnjB5dk1uJQONio74+8BYe/5jbjG+uXoFCq2ZzUrUaPty df/yWMTbWtYTUTXh+VNGIptE6Rqd14z+eEtA3r0HT34Y+kslazonehABnK0H9GYM6c CyCwFyqA9QDaiDdy2B3qUBBjPJxKlpMoECDc73hrGh4D2DnJw1dW3dZsCwcGZtpvqT /iyPhNEH8v5tw== In-Reply-To: <83mt07ee2n.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 52887082:user:proton Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.43.24; envelope-from=uzibalqa@proton.me; helo=mail-4324.protonmail.ch X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:144185 Archived-At: ------- Original Message ------- On Saturday, July 8th, 2023 at 7:06 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: Yuri Khan yuri.v.khan@gmail.com > > Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2023 01:28:29 +0700 > > Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org > >=20 > > On Fri, 7 Jul 2023 at 13:39, Eli Zaretskii eliz@gnu.org wrote: > >=20 > > > > However, what is the reason for that event loop? > > >=20 > > > The reason is to allow return to the manual with minimal fuss. As the > > > user who invokes "?" is very likely to be a newbie to Emacs, having > > > them to deal with buffers and windows at this point is unwise, to say > > > the least. > >=20 > > =E2=80=98help-mode-map=E2=80=99 has =E2=80=98q=E2=80=99 bound to = =E2=80=98quit-window=E2=80=99 and that=E2=80=99s the minimal > > fuss way to return from the help window. It also would help build > > habits that work with a wide set of buffers in Emacs. >=20 >=20 > And how will we tell the user that 'q' quits? In the echo-area, > perhaps? >=20 > > As it is, the user has to build three sets of habits: (1) for the > > rudimentary Info-summary modal event loop where SPC scrolls up and > > anything else quits; (2) for modes that inherit from special-mode > > where SPC scrolls up, DEL and S-SPC scroll down, =E2=80=98q=E2=80=99 qu= its, and all > > familiar keys work; and (3) for the full experience editable buffers > > where you have to scroll with Page Up/Down and have no notion of > > quitting. >=20 >=20 > You exaggerate the problem. A typical user of computers these days > needs much more than 3 sets of habits for similar actions. And > scrolling with SPC in Emacs is quite a widely-used paradigm. How does one scroll up again, it is not evident how. =20 > > > I'm not saying I object to adding more keys to scroll the display > > > there, but the simplicity of going back to the manual should be > > > preserved. > >=20 > > (Hand-written whitespace-ignoring minimal diff follows. I signed the > > paperwork some time ago and it should be valid for now.) >=20 >=20 > Thanks, but this is not the right place for posting patches.