From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: PT Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Making Emacs more newbie friendly Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 06:40:54 +0100 Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Message-ID: References: <874qf8d3cy.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1111210697 24916 80.91.229.2 (19 Mar 2005 05:38:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 05:38:17 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Mar 19 06:38:17 2005 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DCWf3-0008Vs-Ag for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 19 Mar 2005 06:38:09 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DCWvg-00024j-9C for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 19 Mar 2005 00:55:20 -0500 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!tsicnews.teliasonera.com!aioe.org!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 81 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 54PQkU1UFqky6dnTymeoYw.domitilla.aioe.org Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 05:39:26 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Opera M2/7.54 (Win32, build 3865) Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:129376 Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-MailScanner-To: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:24931 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:24931 On 18 Mar 2005 22:57:17 +0100, Pascal Bourguignon = wrote: > PT writes: > >> I'm sure I'm not the first to come up with this idea, but I think it >> really would help if emacs had a newbie-mode which made it easier for= >> newbies to get acquainted with it. > > C-h t That's exactly what I meant. The key bindings shown in the tutorial are = = leftovers from a world when there were no arrow keys on keyboards. I have some colleagues using VIM and Emacs and none of them use the = standard keys for movement, all of them use the arrow keys. I've been = using emacs for 6+ years, customized it inside out, wrote minor modes fo= r = it and yet I too use the arrow keys, not M-f and M-b and such. I may sound like a heretic, but I don't think a newbie should learn new = = keybindings for cursor movement. >> I don't even recommend emacs anymore when someone asks me for a good >> editor, because they always complain about emacs being too foreign, >> non-standard, etc. >> >> This newbie mode would be a simple command which when activated would= >> change default emacs settings, keybindings to as similar to a more >> usual editor as possible. > > M-x viper RET VI is not a more usual editor. KEdit is. Notepad is. >> This would include for example keybindings which are familiar for new= >> users: >> >> F1 for help, F2 for save file, F3 for load file, etc. > > Where did you find these keybindings? I've never seen them! You call= > them Familiar??? You are probably a Unix veteran. They are familiar to anyone on Windows = = for example and much more friendly than C-x C-f. > > Better put: > > alias newbie-emacs=3Dnano # or pico > > in your ~/.bashrc Sigh. When some people sees how I work with Emacs they want to learn it.= = The idea is to relieve the initial pain of meeting Emacs the first time,= = so that they don't give it up in disgust, before they get to know it = better. -- = Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/