From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?B?QWRhbSBXb8WCaw==?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why Emacs should have a good web-browser Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 20:21:30 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87ocrjl2r6.fsf@gmail.com> <87zlb2bwyj.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87bpnefl73.fsf@gmail.com> <1248196427.7551.38.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1248200692 26465 80.91.229.12 (21 Jul 2009 18:24:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 18:24:52 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Paul R , ferkiwi+a@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, Miles Bader To: "Thomas Lord" , "Stefan Monnier" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 21 20:24:44 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MTK15-0003nt-Np for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 20:24:44 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51326 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MTK15-0004UZ-5r for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 14:24:43 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MTJyI-0002yi-Ej for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 14:21:50 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MTJyD-0002w9-J1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 14:21:49 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=49316 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MTJyD-0002w3-FZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 14:21:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-bw0-f219.google.com ([209.85.218.219]:65429) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MTJyB-0002Gf-Kk; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 14:21:43 -0400 Original-Received: by bwz19 with SMTP id 19so3445414bwz.42 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 11:21:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:content-type:to:cc:subject :references:date:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:from :message-id:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=pGWrE0Xy6F+wlhmWIPCqEjYUJtofaXtOFsWEYM2wX9g=; b=AW0nmynnu62hu5pwiTi/tMJC57avz2CgwQ5btNvfUgYzuZPh868yR7+Vsq+XRhhdit Xkf75FE+0U39xz15DQH81f4LVxNgKW8riuITR66JsG9orF8yFv5zV2bVHlKZpDm/4cm0 rXCEL9S/KNMBgTOvd2xbHTeExSpBPwZKcBttE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=content-type:to:cc:subject:references:date:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:from:message-id:in-reply-to:user-agent; b=ubf7lzzLB/p3MGx5tRSMACSYvRn2tnCN6z+O9zMeXEBmQytKru5518X+NvwfI8U8Gt 9gh+6RbEpU/nPWYdeGumHbHOOftFv1B3FX1oZmbzzjou5ZKA0vEpagB8GeaY87imfuhb mHCxGzLZ1zajEoCnSwKcXopc+f2cr9xKiYPE4= Original-Received: by 10.103.172.9 with SMTP id z9mr3026290muo.58.1248200501562; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 11:21:41 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from inferno.interq.pl (nat-4.interq.pl [83.2.136.4]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j10sm29736447mue.29.2009.07.21.11.21.40 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 21 Jul 2009 11:21:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1248196427.7551.38.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> User-Agent: Opera Mail/10.00 (Win32) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:112940 Archived-At: Dnia 21-07-2009 o 19:13:47 Thomas Lord napisał(a): > On Tue, 2009-07-21 at 11:52 -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> It might be possible to use one of those engines as Emacs's rendering >> engine, indeed. To me, it wouldn't seem like an good solution to the >> problem at hand because I don't think it would allow me to control the >> web-browser from Emacs (e.g., how would I access from Elisp the content >> of pages generated from HTML?). So it'd be more like embedding Emacs >> inside a normal browser. It's not a bad idea, but I don't think it'll >> provide as many benefits from Emacs's point of view. > There already exists a browser that tries to implement things the Emacs way. It's called conkeror. From their website (http://conkeror.org): "Conkeror is a keyboard-oriented, highly-customizable, highly-extensible web browser based on Mozilla XULRunner, written mainly in JavaScript, and inspired by exceptional software such as Emacs and vi. Conkeror features a sophisticated keyboard system, allowing users to run commands and interact with content in powerful and novel ways. It is self-documenting, featuring a powerful interactive help system." Benefits of helping out with this project: * Conkeror can be fully controlled from withing emacs using mozrepl * Doesn't have problems with most pages that Firefox can handle * Can use existing Firefox extensions (Adblock etc.) * No problems with websites blocking less popular clients (a very common problem even for browsers like Opera) * Shares many concepts with Emacs Instead of implementing a full blown browser inside of Emacs, which by itself is a massive complicated task both from a usability point of view and security. Maybe we should focus on improving the interoperability between Emacs and conkeror which already exists and is available. > > It might make an interesting experiment for someone > who has the time and inclination to try writing an > Elisp interpreter and Emacs primitives in Javascript. > As far as I understand, they are not implementing an elisp interpreter but javascript is used the same way to provide functionality to the browser. Which by itself is quite interesting considering how far they have gone.