From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "John S. Yates, Jr." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: File menu changes (suggestions) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 06:05:16 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87psu7xdgo.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1119953748 5768 80.91.229.2 (28 Jun 2005 10:15:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:15:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jun 28 12:15:40 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DnD7N-0003jj-H1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:15:01 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DnDFC-0003kf-0R for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 06:23:06 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DnCwq-0000Kk-HB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 06:04:08 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DnCwm-0000Hu-6G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 06:04:04 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DnCwl-0000GJ-76 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 06:04:03 -0400 Original-Received: from [204.127.198.39] (helo=rwcrmhc13.comcast.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DnCxS-0004Yx-9F for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 06:04:46 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.yates-sheets.org ([24.218.47.3]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2005062810001201500bligme>; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:00:12 +0000 Original-Received: from 10.1.1.4 ([10.1.1.4]) by mail.yates-sheets.org (WinRoute Pro 4.2.5) with SMTP; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 06:05:05 -0400 Original-Received: from dadold.yates-sheets.org ([10.1.1.12]) by [10.1.1.4] with SMTP (SpamPal v1.57) sender ; 28 Jun 2005 06:05:05 -0400 Original-To: Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: <87psu7xdgo.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652 X-SpamPal: PASS WLIST EMAIL X-Wlist-Pattern: john@yates-sheets.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:39780 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:39780 On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 01:28:53 -0400, you wrote: >> People pointed out that "New File" might be confusing >> since it does not in fact make a new file. I think the name >> "Visit New File" will help show that this isn't the same as the usual >> "New File" operation. > >Rather than change menu entries's names to less "standard" ones, we = should >change their behavior to better match what users expect. Exactly the attitude I advocate. >E.g. find-file might require confirmation before opening >a non-existent file. I'll love such a new feature, seeing how often I = do >"C-x C-f emacs/src/rege TAB RET" only to find myself in "regexp." rather >than in the "regexp.c" that I intended to open. I love it. >As for the "New File" entry, there are several options. One is to just >create a new buffer called "New Document" and not attached to any file. >This mimicks many "CUA-style" systems. It sucks because it does give us >a chance to choose a good minor mode, and because we won't be able to >autosave the file [this latter point could be fixed, of course]. (Miss "not" near end of 3rd line?) >Another option is to prompt for a file name and require confirmation if = the >file already exists. It's a slightly different behavior than those = other >"CUA-style" systems, but unsuspecting users should hopefully not find >it confusing, which is all we really care about. Yes! A very nice solution. It alters the timing of when the user supplies the ultimate file-name but preserves essential Emacs models. In fact I suspect that one would be very hard put to find a user of a CUA-like system who would argue that giving new documents an initial, application-generated name and path, only to later have to remember to use SaveAs.. instead of Save is a virtue to be preserved. Thus I believe that Stefan's suggestion would be quite palatable to the CUA community. >I guess I'm just repeating what Miles and Eli have said. No. You have made a concrete suggestion that has not been aired before. I heartily endorse both the suggestion and your attitude of how to respond to the not-yet-Emacs-users community. /john