[OT] Reading Emacs Tutorials

[OT] Reading Emacs Tutorials

[Byung-Hee HWANG]

Because naturally i'm not patient, i cannot read the tutorials for long
time on anchor to chair. Is there somebody like me? If so, how do you
become to the power user on Emacs? Without reading Emacs tutorials or
Emacs howto.

Nevetheless, i cannot give up Emacs study. Really i like Emacs for
now. Can you please help me about that? Without fall behind, i wish to
stand up line of power users after about 3 months. Please comments!

This post sent be after read the article of Xah [1]:
[1] http://xahlee.org/emacs/emacs_vs_xemacs.html

-- 
Byung-Hee HWANG, KNU 
∑ WWW: http://izb.knu.ac.kr/~bh/

Re: [OT] Reading Emacs Tutorials

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 14.03.2009 um 04:18 schrieb Byung-Hee HWANG:

> If so, how do you become to the power user on Emacs?


By reading the postings to this list and trying to find a solution to  
reported problems. (Though not always sending them ...)

--
Greetings

   Pete

No matter which way you ride, it's uphill and against the wind.
				– First Law of Bicycling

Re: [OT] Reading Emacs Tutorials

[Byung-Hee HWANG]

Byung-Hee HWANG <bh@izb.knu.ac.kr> writes:

> Because naturally i'm not patient, i cannot read the tutorials for long
> time on anchor to chair. Is there somebody like me? If so, how do you
> become to the power user on Emacs? Without reading Emacs tutorials or
> Emacs howto.
>
> Nevetheless, i cannot give up Emacs study. Really i like Emacs for
> now. Can you please help me about that? Without fall behind, i wish to
> stand up line of power users after about 3 months. Please comments!
>
> This post sent be after read the article of Xah [1]:
> [1] http://xahlee.org/emacs/emacs_vs_xemacs.html

While i read for the replys, i realized that before post is somewhat
stupid and dangerous for us because my minds from the message stands for
only my private greed by Emacs study without public good. I'll take of
myself.

At this time, actually, i prefer "Silence is gold" ;;

-- 
Byung-Hee HWANG, KNU 
∑ WWW: http://izb.knu.ac.kr/~bh/

Re: [OT] Reading Emacs Tutorials

[Ronnie Collinson]

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Contribution and communication is always important for any community based
project. My further recommendiation would be to look at quite a few emacs
related blogs, they often have little tid-bits which ussually quite short.

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Re: [OT] Reading Emacs Tutorials

[Lennart Borgman]

On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 10:21 PM, Ronnie Collinson
<notthinking@gmail.com> wrote:
> Contribution and communication is always important for any community based
> project. My further recommendiation would be to look at quite a few emacs
> related blogs, they often have little tid-bits which ussually quite short.

Might be a good idea. I wonder what the best way to find them is. On
EmacsWiki there are a lot of users that links to their blogs. Maybe
that is a good way?

Re: [OT] Reading Emacs Tutorials

[Byung-Hee HWANG]

Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:

> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 10:21 PM, Ronnie Collinson
> <notthinking@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Contribution and communication is always important for any community based
>> project. My further recommendiation would be to look at quite a few emacs
>> related blogs, they often have little tid-bits which ussually quite short.
>
> Might be a good idea. I wonder what the best way to find them is. On
> EmacsWiki there are a lot of users that links to their blogs. Maybe
> that is a good way?

As you commented above, i'll do best study for me and emacs
family within that ways. Thank you for kind and valuable replies,
indeed..;;

-- 
Byung-Hee HWANG, KNU 
∑ WWW: http://izb.knu.ac.kr/~bh/

Re: [OT] Reading Emacs Tutorials

[Lennart Borgman]

On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 7:42 AM, Byung-Hee HWANG <bh@izb.knu.ac.kr> wrote:
> Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 10:21 PM, Ronnie Collinson
>> <notthinking@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Contribution and communication is always important for any community based
>>> project. My further recommendiation would be to look at quite a few emacs
>>> related blogs, they often have little tid-bits which ussually quite short.
>>
>> Might be a good idea. I wonder what the best way to find them is. On
>> EmacsWiki there are a lot of users that links to their blogs. Maybe
>> that is a good way?
>
> As you commented above, i'll do best study for me and emacs
> family within that ways. Thank you for kind and valuable replies,
> indeed..;;

One thing I forgot to mention is that learning Emacs on ms windows is
a bit more difficult because you might not have the external programs
needed for useful commands like rgrep etc. I have packed together a
distribution that includes those programs, see

  http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsW32

So if anyone reading this is using ms windows this might be a good way
to learn about Emacs. This might be a first step on the road to
GNU/Linux ...

Re: [OT] Reading Emacs Tutorials

[B. T. Raven]

Lennart Borgman wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 7:42 AM, Byung-Hee HWANG <bh@izb.knu.ac.kr> wrote:
>> Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 10:21 PM, Ronnie Collinson
>>> <notthinking@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Contribution and communication is always important for any community based
>>>> project. My further recommendiation would be to look at quite a few emacs
>>>> related blogs, they often have little tid-bits which ussually quite short.
>>> Might be a good idea. I wonder what the best way to find them is. On
>>> EmacsWiki there are a lot of users that links to their blogs. Maybe
>>> that is a good way?
>> As you commented above, i'll do best study for me and emacs
>> family within that ways. Thank you for kind and valuable replies,
>> indeed..;;
> 
> One thing I forgot to mention is that learning Emacs on ms windows is
> a bit more difficult because you might not have the external programs
> needed for useful commands like rgrep etc. I have packed together a
> distribution that includes those programs, see
> 
>   http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsW32
> 
> So if anyone reading this is using ms windows this might be a good way
> to learn about Emacs. This might be a first step on the road to
> GNU/Linux ...
> 
> 

Lennart,

Will your rgrep work with the standard Emacs w32 build? I have most of 
the gnuwin32 utilities but things like rgrep are just shell scripts like:

#!/bin/sh

exec grep -r "$@"

which I can make into ms batch files but then I don't know what to do 
with them.  Would I be able to use your rgrep in my setup? Can it be 
stripped out of the Emacsw32 stuff? I got web-browser printing from you 
and that works fine.

Re: [OT] Reading Emacs Tutorials

[Lennart Borgman]

On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 12:40 AM, B. T. Raven <nihil@nihilo.net> wrote:
> Lennart Borgman wrote:
>> One thing I forgot to mention is that learning Emacs on ms windows is
>> a bit more difficult because you might not have the external programs
>> needed for useful commands like rgrep etc. I have packed together a
>> distribution that includes those programs, see
>>
>>  http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsW32
>>
>> So if anyone reading this is using ms windows this might be a good way
>> to learn about Emacs. This might be a first step on the road to
>> GNU/Linux ...
>>
>>
>
> Lennart,
>
> Will your rgrep work with the standard Emacs w32 build? I have most of the
> gnuwin32 utilities but things like rgrep are just shell scripts like:
>
> #!/bin/sh
>
> exec grep -r "$@"
>
> which I can make into ms batch files but then I don't know what to do with
> them.  Would I be able to use your rgrep in my setup? Can it be stripped out
> of the Emacsw32 stuff? I got web-browser printing from you and that works
> fine.

rgrep is a command in Emacs. No shell script is needed. However the
grep program is needed.

I did make some small changes to rgrep (to make it use GNU grep's
recursive switch), but that is not very important. rgrep works with
the standard Emacs build on ms windows. The only thing you need is
something like the gnuwin32 grep. I have packaged that with the
installation. That is really all (but hopefully convenient for
newbees).

Re: [OT] Reading Emacs Tutorials

[Tassilo Horn]

Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:

Hi Lennart,

>> My further recommendiation would be to look at quite a few emacs
>> related blogs, they often have little tid-bits which ussually quite
>> short.
>
> Might be a good idea. I wonder what the best way to find them is. On
> EmacsWiki there are a lot of users that links to their blogs. Maybe
> that is a good way?

There's planet.emacsen.org with aggregates emacs related blogs.

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: [OT] Reading Emacs Tutorials

[Thien-Thi Nguyen]

() Byung-Hee HWANG <bh@izb.knu.ac.kr>
() Sat, 14 Mar 2009 12:18:59 +0900

   how do you become to the power user on Emacs?

If you listen to Emacs' chidings (as you (mis)use it),
perhaps you can imagine an alternative interaction mode.
In searching for that mode, you gain power.  If you are
lucky the power is not only over Emacs, but over yourself,
as well.

thi

Re: [OT] Reading Emacs Tutorials

[Giorgos Keramidas]

On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 12:18:59 +0900, Byung-Hee HWANG <bh@izb.knu.ac.kr> wrote:
> Because naturally i'm not patient, i cannot read the tutorials for
> long time on anchor to chair. Is there somebody like me? If so, how do
> you become to the power user on Emacs? Without reading Emacs tutorials
> or Emacs howto.
>
> Nevetheless, i cannot give up Emacs study. Really i like Emacs for
> now. Can you please help me about that? Without fall behind, i wish to
> stand up line of power users after about 3 months. Please comments!

I just took my own pace and rhythm.  Emacs is a huge program, so it is
pretty normal to feel overwhelmed by its size and complexity.  I think
it is safe to assume that nobody can learn _everything_ about Emacs in
less than 3 months, but do not let this deter you from trying to use
Emacs and learn more about it.

You can start with small editing tasks, i.e. by setting Emacs as your
editor for email messages.  I initially had my Emacs configured as the
editor for mutt(1).  Starting a new Emacs instance for every email
message seemed a bit slowish, but it also provided me with a safe-belt:
when I did something stupid inside Emacs, I could save the message or
kill the buffer, and restart the email editor.  This way I wouldn't feel
afraid to try new things and commands.

Using Emacs for editing my email messages was a pretty big step, because
I usually post 10-50 new messages every day and I spend a fair amount of
time inside my mail reader.  But `forcing' myself to use Emacs for this
sort of work made me realize that I needed to learn more things about
the editor, to become more effective in my email editing tasks.  So I
did.

Every time I learned of a new Emacs trick, I tried to apply it to my
everyday email editing sessions.  I didn't read the _entire_ Emacs
tutorial in one day.  I didn't read the entire manual in one day either.
But I did read parts of the tutorial and the manual very often.  I spent
small chunks of time, and let them accumulate over time to what must be
now several hundred of hours of manual reading.

The important thing to realize is that you don't have to read the
*entire* manual in one go.  Learn how to look things up in the index of
the manual, become acquainted with `info-mode' and how to navigate the
manual by using keys you are familiar with, and let experience build up
over time.

HTH,
Giorgos

Re: [OT] Reading Emacs Tutorials

[Byung-Hee HWANG]

Giorgos Keramidas <keramida@ceid.upatras.gr> writes:

> On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 12:18:59 +0900, Byung-Hee HWANG <bh@izb.knu.ac.kr> wrote:
>> Because naturally i'm not patient, i cannot read the tutorials for
>> long time on anchor to chair. Is there somebody like me? If so, how do
>> you become to the power user on Emacs? Without reading Emacs tutorials
>> or Emacs howto.
>>
>> Nevetheless, i cannot give up Emacs study. Really i like Emacs for
>> now. Can you please help me about that? Without fall behind, i wish to
>> stand up line of power users after about 3 months. Please comments!
>
> I just took my own pace and rhythm.  Emacs is a huge program, so it is
> pretty normal to feel overwhelmed by its size and complexity.  I think
> it is safe to assume that nobody can learn _everything_ about Emacs in
> less than 3 months, but do not let this deter you from trying to use
> Emacs and learn more about it.
>
> You can start with small editing tasks, i.e. by setting Emacs as your
> editor for email messages.  I initially had my Emacs configured as the
> editor for mutt(1).  Starting a new Emacs instance for every email
> message seemed a bit slowish, but it also provided me with a safe-belt:
> when I did something stupid inside Emacs, I could save the message or
> kill the buffer, and restart the email editor.  This way I wouldn't feel
> afraid to try new things and commands.
>
> Using Emacs for editing my email messages was a pretty big step, because
> I usually post 10-50 new messages every day and I spend a fair amount of
> time inside my mail reader.  But `forcing' myself to use Emacs for this
> sort of work made me realize that I needed to learn more things about
> the editor, to become more effective in my email editing tasks.  So I
> did.
>
> Every time I learned of a new Emacs trick, I tried to apply it to my
> everyday email editing sessions.  I didn't read the _entire_ Emacs
> tutorial in one day.  I didn't read the entire manual in one day either.
> But I did read parts of the tutorial and the manual very often.  I spent
> small chunks of time, and let them accumulate over time to what must be
> now several hundred of hours of manual reading.
>
> The important thing to realize is that you don't have to read the
> *entire* manual in one go.  Learn how to look things up in the index of
> the manual, become acquainted with `info-mode' and how to navigate the
> manual by using keys you are familiar with, and let experience build up
> over time.
>
> HTH,
> Giorgos

Giorgos, i saw you at FreeBSD Project's mailing lists, nice to meet you!
Carefully i read your message from mail header (by t) to last
signature. Really you would be my role model as an Emacs user. Because i
like your posting style (bottom posting) and i like your posting route
(via newsgroup) and you are using BSD-like UNIX which is my favorite OS
currently. 

Your words give me some courage i can study Emacs over a boundary of
time continually. After read your message, i decided to start Emacs
study from handling Gnus itself. Thank you so much, indeed.
  
Sincerely,
  
-- 
Byung-Hee HWANG, KNU 
∑ WWW: http://izb.knu.ac.kr/~bh/

Re: [OT] Reading Emacs Tutorials

[Giorgos Keramidas]

On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 01:32:38 +0900, Byung-Hee HWANG <bh@izb.knu.ac.kr> wrote:
> Giorgos, i saw you at FreeBSD Project's mailing lists, nice to meet
> you!  Carefully i read your message from mail header (by t) to last
> signature.

Hey, this is wonderful.  So you are not only a fellow Emacs user, but
also a BSD fan too.  That's so nice ;)

> Thank you so much, indeed.

You are welcome!

Cheers,
Giorgos

Re: [OT] Reading Emacs Tutorials

[prad]

On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 17:32:24 +0200
Giorgos Keramidas <keramida@ceid.upatras.gr> wrote:

> Using Emacs for editing my email messages was a pretty big step
>
hi giorgos!
nice to see you on this list too!

i tried using emacs for my email messages too, but found things slow
and awkward compared to sylpheed, but i think i'll give it another try
after reading what you wrote. there are certain undeniable advantages
to being able to to so many tasks from just one program!!

i've found the big think to learning emacs is utilization. if you keep
doing things with it, the stuff becomes second nature. therefore, i
found it best to learn specific things to do specific things and keep
practising those tasks. every couple of weeks you can add on something
new to learn and gradually you'll acquire a fairly large repertoire.

emacs is like life. you don't do it all at once, but you become
familiar and skilled with doing certain things at certain times when
you need to.

-- 
In friendship,
prad

                                      ... with you on your journey
Towards Freedom
http://www.towardsfreedom.com (website)
Information, Inspiration, Imagination - truly a site for soaring I's

Re: [OT] Reading Emacs Tutorials

[Giorgos Keramidas]

On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 10:25:54 -0700, prad <prad@towardsfreedom.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 17:32:24 +0200
> Giorgos Keramidas <keramida@ceid.upatras.gr> wrote:
>> Using Emacs for editing my email messages was a pretty big step

> hi giorgos!
> nice to see you on this list too!

I must be getting really old.  I see familiar names all over the place!

Nice to see you here too :)

I am using the newsgroup instead of the mailing list, but having a
bidirectional gateway helps a lot.

Re: [OT] Reading Emacs Tutorials

[prad]

On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 20:16:54 +0200
Giorgos Keramidas <keramida@ceid.upatras.gr> wrote:

> I am using the newsgroup instead of the mailing list, but having a
> bidirectional gateway helps a lot.
>
ok so i presume you are using emacs for the newsgroup?
i'm going to try this, once i find out how to get news through our
cable company - when i try news in emacs, i get unable to open
nntp:news so i presume our cable company doesn't offer it.

-- 
In friendship,
prad

                                      ... with you on your journey
Towards Freedom
http://www.towardsfreedom.com (website)
Information, Inspiration, Imagination - truly a site for soaring I's