From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Allen S. Rout" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Differences between Org-Mode and Hyperbole Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 13:30:50 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87h9cdmj6t.fsf@delle7240.chemeng.ucl.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1467221545 3624 80.91.229.3 (29 Jun 2016 17:32:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 17:32:25 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 29 19:32:12 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1bIJLP-0000NK-KR for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2016 19:32:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45159 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bIJLO-0003FR-Rd for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2016 13:32:10 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60583) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bIJKl-0003FA-KL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2016 13:31:32 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bIJKi-0007BJ-14 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2016 13:31:31 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:42317) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bIJKh-0007BE-Po for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2016 13:31:27 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1bIJKg-0008Fd-CB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2016 19:31:26 +0200 Original-Received: from host-128-227-126-159.xlate.ufl.edu ([128.227.126.159]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2016 19:31:26 +0200 Original-Received: from asr by host-128-227-126-159.xlate.ufl.edu with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2016 19:31:26 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 54 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: host-128-227-126-159.xlate.ufl.edu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.4.0 In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:204937 Archived-At: On 06/29/2016 10:34 AM, Richard Stallman wrote: > The reason I don't know Org mode is that I'd have to start by learning > basic Org mode, which I am not interested in, before I see what its > specific features are. At that point, I gave up. IMO, The simplest "start learning Org mode" case is to write plain text with some structure, export the text with all default behavior, and be pleasantly surprised at how sufficient it is for e.g. a whitepaper or other professional communication. I've written TeX and LaTeX since the 80's. There's much to love about it, but much to keep track of. Since I started using Org as my "source code" for documents, I've been able to use as much TeX clue as I care to, and ignore everything else, because it more or less Just Works. There's not much overhead in exercising this use case: Just compose a speech, and insert * headers ** representing some *** heirarchy you feel appropriate. Not to be whiny, but if you aren't willing to give that a shot, I think it's reasonable to interpret that you have set your cap against Org, rather than rejecting it on the merits. Nothing wrong with that, but it helps folks understand that there's no point prosecuting the persuasive goal. :) --- The next iteration is when you want to include a figure or such, and instead of copying a PNG from the filesystem, you conceive the desire: "Here's the gnuplot process to generate the image I want... I wish I could just generate the image at document 'compile' time..." and hey presto, you can. For me, that was the thing that turned org-mode from an interesting environment into pure electronic heroin. I have infrastructure status report documents which contain all the instructions necessary to query my universe for the data necessary to generate the report. Critically, all the instructions are _enclosed_ in the document, which represents an aesthetic and semantic completeness I find very powerful. It's the literate programming thing: Here's what I'm going to do, and [here it is being done]. - Allen S. Rout