From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Steve Youngs Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.xemacs.beta Subject: Merry Xmas and a... OMG, what did you just say? Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 12:21:47 +1000 Organization: The SXEmacs Project Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0970195005==" X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1104459896 22388 80.91.229.6 (31 Dec 2004 02:24:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 02:24:56 +0000 (UTC) Keywords: sxemacs, xemacs, project, gnu, code, wish, make, environment, emacs, development Cc: Emacs Devel , SXEmacs Devel , XEmacs Beta Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 31 03:24:49 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CkCTA-00079a-00 for ; Fri, 31 Dec 2004 03:24:49 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CkCe9-00005G-AB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:36:09 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CkCdt-0008U9-UR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:35:54 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CkCdq-0008Qc-0c for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:35:50 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CkCdp-0008Oz-Fe for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:35:49 -0500 Original-Received: from [61.9.212.151] (helo=bastard.youngs.au.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.34) id 1CkCQS-0004bS-NS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:22:01 -0500 Original-Received: from bastard.youngs.au.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bastard.youngs.au.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iBV2LmkL001494 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 31 Dec 2004 12:21:48 +1000 Original-Received: (from steve@localhost) by bastard.youngs.au.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id iBV2LmlU001493; Fri, 31 Dec 2004 12:21:48 +1000 X-Authentication-Warning: bastard.youngs.au.com: steve set sender to steve@sxemacs.org using -f Original-Newsgroups: comp.emacs.xemacs Original-To: XEmacs Review Mail-Followup-To: SXEmacs Devel X-Face: #O)>9erkUv7RJ~0G~5_6lEMz\HC2&~&kV2bsu4TWHI_v~<8Hj%KBBj1[*\uKF*dxbEzwAli ; tSuN`c)F,}p|7{6lA~e.P+7Qo\A%q"lJ7/UtUX@yEZ!X"Tph(3O8`nhPJF>hI4_GOvb%X{+e*Mi_| ^yTf#aTwGG,(3e41?C9B7Pak*'A$+$/hV X-X-Day: Only 2431241 days till X-Day. 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X-Attribution: SY X-Arch-Repo: steve@sxemacs.org--2004 http://arch.sxemacs.org/2004/ Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAElBMVEX+/84jFBj+/c9FNzgR BAixp5eJzWKFAAACE0lEQVR4nG1T260rIQw8ogPL5H/jaAsghgKspYHAof9W7hiyeRxdS8nHzI7H L35+/sYmHtsXFvCTINKHyCcuK/YU6/0/RNd0qMoXvuvQzMCHtm+ciKoiRm+feFaN9ejOvBUBuMUa 7ej5UrScHiFINjCpsnqyJq96fklTJCPlX4ZgO5udBmZ06aWz3p+EV59LNqtaemEnTudbt8M0EcFX +8tbZDyi1QITVm6S9Ey1a6RI5C4pi0QnXCT9QUiU1Etl+T282kmMVCkVUJlUu2nbJhGkROYCxeVq 3FGarFRh70YD/XLbIyuh2pUq3B6oxnGRK/MSTGI8DMZcxijdOFl7bjYMzLWmir9a4V5tLEK8i0g1 m3Pqw29rIGpEseJnxlNW79siCCkMKpAItVxmF4L05iJHc4K7E9jp6HEl8K8RD6quQKIF12peEzZV fVhhxzfJpsYIIi1D/UTlpsnvyXsnJ7U0P0gQkJNfAY6h+grVYQzxCoQScYIVz/E/53FDDlNfeK1e 8OvWbj5XL8C7pIPb9rypm66AQ+QjtfM1hSfhFu79emYyCdznbP2N40Lm556pErf3s3QCsD8NQ6Xb 643h7ID6ScXjuKC1sIWngnwknXPUxPczkZv7kHA0FFNP5f1a5aGYBhlGqyA+FHNUzGS4Nf1UJMq+ zORj0Q+P3QtdK/14lIvQWTHyjCbhnQoPc8xYizvjH2MpmfN+ZpYoAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) sxemacs/22.1 Cancel-Lock: sha1:loBw1DWij5TZD3XJ3IE5hTFy11A= X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:31631 gmane.emacs.xemacs.beta:17585 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:31631 --===============0970195005== Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" --=-=-= To Emacsians Everywhere! A few of you know what I am about to say, a few of you could probably make a pretty good educated guess, the rest of you... well, you're in for a treat. For quite a while now I've felt that only having 2 one true editors wasn't enough. So I have created a third. It is called "SXEmacs" and it is a fork of XEmacs 21.4.16. ,----[ Our Mission Statement: ] | To provide the Open Source community with a text editing and | development environment that is based on XEmacs and is 2nd to none | in regards to stability, features, and innovation. | | To foster a user and developer friendly project environment. | | And, above all, to have fun doing it. `---- Before I go any further, please, if you wish to follow up to this message, observe the MFT header. Discussion of SXEmacs on the XEmacs and GNU/Emacs forums I've posted to here would not be appropriate. This is a one off post just to let people know what is going on. So why would I do such an incredibly foolish thing that probably has more chance of failing than succeeding? Well, isn't that reason enough? And for those of you who can't comprehend that, here are some more boring, mundane reasons: o I believe that XEmacs, even 21.4, is too broken and unstable. o I want to make some fairly radical changes that I know the Review Board would never go for. o I want a development environment that doesn't get boiled down in "politics". o I want more control of the project as a whole and at the same time make it easier for developers to contribute and become involved. Some of the items we have on our "todo" list (quotes there, because I just realised we don't actually have a physical list yet :-P): o Use GNU/arch (tla) for revision control instead of CVS. This is already done. My repo is at steve@sxemacs.org--2004 http://arch.sxemacs.org/2004/ o Have a written procedures and policies manual. (partially completed) o Use a PostgreSQL'd Bugzilla for issue tracking. (we have it in place but unfortunately the guy I have handling it for us broke something and currently we can't connect to it) o Move away from GNU coding standards in the C code and write code in a manner that the gods intended. I'm following fairly closely the Linux kernel in this regard. I have already run indent(1) over all the C code. o autoconf 2.5x compatible. (not begun) o Remove every scrape of Windoze code. (not begun) SXEmacs will _NOT_ run on Windoze. o Back port Mike Sperber's KKCC garbage collector from XEmacs 21.5. And at a later stage look at using the Boehm GC. o Back port Jerry James' DSO, bignum, bigfloat, and ratio work from XEmacs 21.5. o Multi-threading o Do away with the idea of a buffer being nothing more than a string. o FFI -- Foreign Function Interface (pretty much like DSO's but far more flexible) o Possibly move to a client/server model o A package system where the package tells SXEmacs where and how to get updates. It is our intention to maintain compatibility on the lisp level with XEmacs for as long as we can. Providing that compatibility doesn't hinder SXEmacs' growth and potential. For now in SXEmacs: (and running-xemacs running-sxemacs (featurep '(and sxemacs xemacs))) => t Our aim is _NOT_ to hinder the development or progress of either the XEmacs project or the GNU/Emacs project. In fact, it is exactly the opposite. Our innovations will benefit the other projects even if those innovations prove to be bad or unsuccessful. We don't wish to eventually become absorbed into the XEmacs (or GNU/Emacs) code base, and we have no desire for the opposite to happen. I'm a leader, not a follower, the SXEmacs Project is the same. I sincerely hope you can keep up with (even surpass) us. Everyone at the SXEmacs Project and myself would like to wish you and your families a very happy and safe New Year's. -- |---------------------| | In space, | | No one can hear you rip a stinky | |---------------------------------------| --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Eicq - The XEmacs ICQ Client iEUEABECAAYFAkHUt7wACgkQHSfbS6lLMAM8RACg0ah8ym0eaxk6+iQjOTlANf0V JN0Al00zgi4jq7eqVTaJeYojTPbCQgc= =G+nX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- --===============0970195005== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Emacs-devel mailing list Emacs-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel --===============0970195005==--