From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dan Espen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: if vs. when vs. and: style question Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 14:52:32 -0400 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Message-ID: References: <87sicvwckx.fsf@wmi.amu.edu.pl> <87wq27yvqg.fsf@debian.uxu> <8d531e99-7260-4263-ac99-09c6871e2708@googlegroups.com> <87vbhq53lf.fsf@debian.uxu> <87a8z23p23.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <87lhilx0cf.fsf@debian.uxu> <87twx9360u.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <0d1d19ab-06e9-462d-8867-9a49b1e232d3@googlegroups.com> <87lhil2io1.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1427309720 31505 80.91.229.3 (25 Mar 2015 18:55:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 18:55:20 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Mar 25 19:55:19 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YaqSU-0006IE-O6 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 25 Mar 2015 19:55:18 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40982 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YaqSU-0002RH-8D for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 25 Mar 2015 14:55:18 -0400 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!goblin1!goblin.stu.neva.ru!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 71 Injection-Info: mx02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="ad871ce417d1fb2ea3c87e49e48c0ae1"; logging-data="16722"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19iaaun+k0vAOb5SjQk2Abkq5hiUz3c4WI=" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:QAg9f9fO2hT43EI3B6OLYyiQFss= Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:211056 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:103337 Archived-At: Drew Adams writes: >> > If you use a particular Unicode character often, just give its >> > insertion a command and bind that to a key. If you have 30 such >> > chars, put them all on a prefix key. Or use completion on their >> > command names (names you created, so easy for you to type, remember, >> > complete to,...). >> > >> > IOW, it's not a big deal to insert Unicode characters, especially >> > if you insert the same ones over and over. You do not need to use >> > `C-x 8 RET' each time. >> >> Sorry, that scales up for more than 1 or 2 characters how? > > Well, I doubt that I can convince you. I can only repeat what I > suggested. My mind is made up, but interesting info like how to type Greek are one reason why I commented at all. I think keyboards and keys are an important issue and the current state of the art falls far short. Some important keys are completely missing. I have no idea why HELP, UNDO, COPY, PASTE, REDO, MINIMIZE, SCREEN LOCK, etc. are completely MIA. Other keys just gather dust. (SysRq, Scroll Lock, Pause/Break, KP_/, KP_* What are these designers thinking. > There is a big difference, I think, between (1) using `C-x 8 RET' > to complete against zillions of character names (or code points) that > you might not be familiar with and (2) completing against a relative > few (5? 10? 50? 150?) char-command names that you yourself came up with. > > My point is that if someone uses relatively few - which, depending on > the person, could be 5 or 500 (or 5000?) chars, then it can make sense > to put their insertion on keys (commands). That's why I asked how many additional characters are proposed for lets say Python. More than a few would be a problem. I put the not sign (¬) on shifted backspace and still look in my xmodmap file to remember where it is. >> I already have a little piece of oak tag paper that I've cut out >> to surround the 6-key pad above the arrow keys. >> The paper has the legend: >> >> UNDO >> FRONT OPEN AGAIN >> -keys- >> COPY >> >> Yep, even for 5 specially assigned keys, my mind sometimes goes >> blank and I look at the paper. > > Hey, my mind goes blank too. But instead of paper I use completion. > IOW, I ask Emacs for help. A few of those keys above are for the window manager. Emacs completion doesn't help. >> A normal keyboard just isn't designed for a bunch of strange >> characters. > > Maybe so. But if you use the euro character a *lot*, for example, > then you might just consider assigning it a key. Rather than using > `C-x 8 RET euro sign RET' each time to insert it. I'd rather not need the additional characters. -- Dan Espen