From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dan Espen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: if vs. when vs. and: style question now Unicode Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 13:16:35 -0400 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Message-ID: References: <87sicvwckx.fsf@wmi.amu.edu.pl> <87wq27yvqg.fsf@debian.uxu> <8d531e99-7260-4263-ac99-09c6871e2708@googlegroups.com> <87vbhq53lf.fsf@debian.uxu> <87a8z23p23.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <87lhilx0cf.fsf@debian.uxu> <87twx9360u.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <0d1d19ab-06e9-462d-8867-9a49b1e232d3@googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1427304031 27894 80.91.229.3 (25 Mar 2015 17:20:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 17:20:31 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Mar 25 18:20:26 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Yaoya-0003Wt-SP for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 25 Mar 2015 18:20:21 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40389 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yaoya-00089e-4V for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 25 Mar 2015 13:20:20 -0400 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!news-1.dfn.de!news.dfn.de!newsfeed.fsmpi.rwth-aachen.de!newsfeed.straub-nv.de!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 89 Injection-Info: mx02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="ad871ce417d1fb2ea3c87e49e48c0ae1"; logging-data="23216"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+GMq7qtuLsbZWXaKzZ5Jzpn5HcHxD+9g4=" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:i04UlnFSqlO9QI1294grV6tNIts= Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:211050 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:103331 Archived-At: Rusi writes: > On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 at 9:16:21 PM UTC+5:30, Dan Espen wrote: >> Rusi writes: >> >> > On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 at 8:22:28 PM UTC+5:30, Dan Espen wrote: >> >> Rusi writes: >> >> >> >> > On a different note... >> >> > For 50 years CS has been living in the impoverished world of ASCII. >> >> > This makes people think CS and math are more far apart than they essentially/really are. >> >> > >> >> > I wrote this as my wish for python: >> >> > http://blog.languager.org/2014/04/unicoded-python.html >> >> > Isn't it about time lisp also considered a similar line? >> >> >> >> I can't type it, I sure don't want to see it in source code. >> > >> > Strange to see that comment on an emacs-list! >> >> I've been using Emacs since the 70s. >> >> > I guess the same comment would have been made 50 years ago when C came out >> > and Fortran/Cobol programmers could not find lower case on card-punch machines >> > >> > [There are things called input-methods in particular tex-input method]¹ >> > >> > >> > Yes, unicode has more mis-understandings than understanding (currently) >> > See >> > >> > http://blog.languager.org/2015/02/universal-unicode.html for the plus >> > http://blog.languager.org/2015/03/whimsical-unicode.html for the minus >> > >> > >> > ========= >> > ¹ I prefer X-based input methods; eg after >> > $ setxkbmap -layout "us,gr" -option "grp:caps_toggle,grp_led:caps" >> > >> > the CAPSLOCK becomes a 'greeklock' ie after pressing CAPSLOCK >> > abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz >> > produces >> > αβψδεφγηιξκλμνοπ;ρστθωςχυζ >> >> That's pretty neat. >> But I don't know the Greek alphabet and if someone started sprinkling >> Greek in my source code, I'd want a damn good explanation. > > Greek was given as an example > >> >> There are thousands of these crazy symbols and around 100 keys on my >> keyboard. Only a few of those keys have more than 1 label. > > 1 million+ codepoints > Greater 100,000 in use So, 100 keys and about a dozen distinct shift keys used one or 2 at a time should just about cover it. Putting anything useful on the key caps is not in the cards. >> How am I supposed to remember how to type all this stuff? > > You are asking a rhetorical question... > > If you are asking genuinely: > http://blog.languager.org/2015/01/unicode-and-universe.html > explains what's wrong with sticking to the obsolete penury-of-ASCII > > http://blog.languager.org/2015/02/universal-unicode.html > suggests that if mapping a million chars onto a 100-char keyboard looks like > an unpleasant/unsolvable problem, which subsets may be worth considering Obvious to me, allowing 100,000 characters into source code is a really bad idea. How many additional characters do you think a language should allow? I ended up expending quite a bit of effort to get square brackets to work right on an IBM mainframe. The PL/I not sign and solid bar vs. broken bar still cause problems. Then I still run into this: ¢. I have no idea how I'd deal with any significant number of new characters. -- Dan Espen