From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: joakim@verona.se Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs learning curve Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:44:45 +0200 Message-ID: References: <4C3B6A8A.80105@gmx.de> <87wrt0e81n.fsf@telefonica.net> <87bpabls4a.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279010980 19597 80.91.229.12 (13 Jul 2010 08:49:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 08:49:40 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 13 10:49:37 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYbBJ-00027F-6p for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:49:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57269 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OYbBI-00064G-ML for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 04:49:36 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=54283 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OYbB8-0005zO-Kh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 04:49:28 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYb7C-0003TZ-Qy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 04:45:27 -0400 Original-Received: from iwfs.imcode.com ([82.115.149.64]:45746 helo=gate.verona.se) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYb6f-0003M4-09; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 04:44:49 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost.localdomain (IDENT:1005@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gate.verona.se (8.13.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id o6D8ik0O023496; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:44:46 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87bpabls4a.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> (David Kastrup's message of "Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:10:13 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127157 Archived-At: David Kastrup writes: > writes: > >> I disagree that Emacs is actively trying to work against certain classes >> of users, as you seem to suggest. >> >> Obviously, Emacs has varying degrees of support for different >> programming languages. Somebody has to provide such support, it does not >> materialise out of the blue, and as with most free software support >> follows the interest of the developers. >> >> If C# is poorly supported, it simply means that very few dedicated emacs >> hackers has had the need/motivation/time to provide it. In contrast, >> Emacs offers some of the best Common Lisp support anywhere, complete >> with cross-referencing, documentation access, completion and minibuffer >> argument hints. > > The question is why the respective facilities are not part of the > generic Emacs language support framework. Support for every language > has a completely disjoint set of features, keybindings, highlighting, > and so on of wildly differing quality, design and usability. > > One problem with learning Emacs is that you have to learn it new for > each language, and every person writing language support has to create > it new from almost scratch. > > If there is a new language, and two different people write non-trivial > support for it, the results will be wildly different. I agreep. I find the lack of consistency between Emacs tools quite frustrating. Personally I try to help improving this situation by intermittently helping out with CEDET, and whine about consistent key-bindings between modes now and then. -- Joakim Verona