From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: joakim@verona.se Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: GnuTLS for W32 Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2012 06:40:27 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87aa64ubg9.fsf@wanadoo.es> <83boqkr9bp.fsf@gnu.org> <874nwcu17i.fsf@wanadoo.es> <834nwcr6un.fsf@gnu.org> <87vcosskhc.fsf@wanadoo.es> <831urgr2yr.fsf@gnu.org> <87r4zgsh2w.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87ipks3zbo.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87boqk3q69.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87aa634st8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87fwfvsgfv.fsf@wanadoo.es> <877h17scdo.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87hb0b77nr.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87sjjv5moq.fsf@lifelogs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1325742063 3789 80.91.229.12 (5 Jan 2012 05:41:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2012 05:41:03 +0000 (UTC) Cc: tzz@lifelogs.com To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 05 06:40:59 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Rig4Q-0003Up-K5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2012 06:40:58 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59185 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rig4Q-00076E-0E for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2012 00:40:58 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:53095) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rig4N-00075y-0a for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2012 00:40:56 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rig4L-00068F-SZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2012 00:40:54 -0500 Original-Received: from mx2.bahnhof.se ([213.80.101.12]:57087) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rig4L-00068B-Hh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2012 00:40:53 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost (mf.bahnhof.se [213.80.101.20]) by mx2-reinject (Postfix) with ESMTP id B63ABD52D1; Thu, 5 Jan 2012 06:40:55 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new using ClamAV at bahnhof.se (MF4) Original-Received: from mf4.bahnhof.se ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mf4.bahnhof.se [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kdQQYNAbfP1e; Thu, 5 Jan 2012 06:40:46 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from exodia.localdomain (h-235-102.a149.priv.bahnhof.se [85.24.235.102]) by mf4.bahnhof.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4FAFE4345B; Thu, 5 Jan 2012 06:40:44 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from chopper.vpn.verona.se (unknown [192.168.201.14]) by exodia.localdomain (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DEC04E00A4; Thu, 5 Jan 2012 06:40:28 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: <87sjjv5moq.fsf@lifelogs.com> (Ted Zlatanov's message of "Wed, 04 Jan 2012 13:48:05 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.92 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: FreeBSD 6.x (1) X-Received-From: 213.80.101.12 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:147316 Archived-At: Ted Zlatanov writes: > On Wed, 4 Jan 2012 18:00:49 +0100 Juanma Barranquero w= rote:=20 > > JB> 2012/1/4 Ted Zlatanov : >>> I am puzzled by this. =A0Why is it wrong to share the GnuTLS DLL? >>>=20 >>> If you and Eli and other W32 experts say a standalone self-updating >>> installer that drops a shared GnuTLS DLL in a common area is a bad idea, > > JB> I think is a good idea. Fortunately, we don't have to discuss it, > JB> because =D3scar "won't start discussing it" ;-) > > I'd like to discuss it with anyone willing. Joakim offered to help with > the installer and I can probably follow a build recipe to make the DLLs, > so practically it seems like we could do this. I just want to make sure > I don't find out in a few days or weeks that the installer approach is > flawed for some obscure W32 reason, which =D3scar sort of implied. > > On Wed, 04 Jan 2012 20:10:23 +0200 Eli Zaretskii wrote:=20 > > EZ> Maybe then this thread will become anything but hand-waving. > > I think it makes sense to discuss approaches--I had not even thought of > the GnuTLS installer approach until we had this conversation. Rushing > into development can be fun, but can also hide good ideas. Here is my advice based on some commercial installers I worked on. - use NSIS to install all binaries. Keep all binaries isolated from everything else, so no fiddling in system directories unless it in absolutely necessary in which case you should abandon all hope and carry on to the bitter end. - NSIS is really a tiny quirky Forth language so you can do a lot of stuff, including downloading updates, patching, etc. but keep it simple. - NSIS won't produce the standard MSI installers(not last time I looked anyway) but this is just as well since MSI installers are not what they are advertised to be - You can install all of Emacs with a NSIS installer, and distribute further update NSIS installers for particular components through ELPA. Don't underestimate the number of ways a windows installer can fuck up. If I were to do this I would make a build bot that produced daily binaries of the installer of a complete Emacs installation including the dll files. I would not bother with partial updating of particular dll:s at this time. Later, I would implement libffi support in Emacs, by including Guile as an Emacs dependency. Then we could have uniform soft dll support, and get a step on the way on including Guile in the Emacs core. But I digress. > > Ted > --=20 Joakim Verona