From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Barry Fishman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs vista build failures Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:00:19 -0400 Message-ID: References: <871w1njq32.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87iquzxgtk.fsf@saeurebad.de> <4884CFEF.8040404@gmail.com> <48861A51.1090401@gmail.com> <20080724080727.GA3448@muc.de> <863alzd1mi.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> <20080726080304.GA1419@muc.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1217300718 3635 80.91.229.12 (29 Jul 2008 03:05:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 03:05:18 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 29 05:06:08 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KNfWh-0001ls-3d for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 05:05:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58793 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KNfVn-0006aV-3R for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 23:04:31 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KNda3-00056B-LK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:00:47 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KNda2-00054g-2w for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:00:47 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=44403 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KNda1-00054Y-VI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:00:45 -0400 Original-Received: from alsmtp01oc.mail2world.com ([74.202.142.144]:1253) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KNdZy-0000Le-5V; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:00:42 -0400 Original-Received: from mail pickup service by alsmtp01oc.mail2world.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:00:02 -0700 auth-sender: bfishman@alum.rpi.edu Original-Received: from 71.0.147.208 unverified ([71.0.147.208]) by alsmtp01oc.mail2world.com with Mail2World SMTP Server; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:00:00 -0700 In-Reply-To: (Richard M. Stallman's message of "Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:47:04 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jul 2008 01:00:02.0298 (UTC) FILETIME=[6E594DA0:01C8F116] X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Windows 2000 SP4, XP SP1+ X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 23:04:25 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:101665 Archived-At: Richard M Stallman writes: > For example, one should ultimately be able to do things like have > GnuCash use Emacs/TTY code to display in text windows. > > It is a useful goal. Do you want to work on trying to design a way to > do this? Preferably it should not involve linking parts of Emacs with > GNUcash. Too unmodular. Better to have them communicate somehow. It is a matter of where you draw the module boundaries. Right now GNUcash uses Guile, GTK, and some application specific lisp and lower level C code. Emacs uses (I guess) its own ELisp, buffers, GTK (among other possibilities) under Emacs's rendering code and application specific Lisp and lower level C code. >From what I understand, Emacs will be moving to Guile (or at least a Guile updated to meet its needs). If GTK is integrated and updated in a way that supports frames and buffers, and allow for a similar objects for TTY frames and buffers, a merge of GNUcash and Emacs becomes more like a bit of a lisp based connective code, to let GNUcash use TTY frames/windows instead of GTK ones. Does integration of Emacs into the GNU Desktop mean that Emacs just starts picking up Gnome and dbus facilities, and dropping portability concerns, or does it becomes a source of components and ideas that can be used in other applications. Otherwise I am afraid that the "make GNU look like Windows" people will bury us in the sort of fragile C++ monoliths like Firefox, that leave most everyone out. I think freedom is not just having source, and the permission to make changes and distribute them. Its also about it being straightforward to actually modify applications in ways that are useful. Emacs is excellent at this. I must have thousands of lines of elisp code, of probably no interest to anyone else, that I have written to tune simple Emacs features. One can easily make changes where the authors did not allow for them (without maintaining patches to the original sources): ;; FQDN patch - Force smtpmail to use mail-host-address (autoload 'smtpmail-fqdn "smtpmail" nil nil) (defadvice smtpmail-fqdn (around change-smtpmail-fqdn activate) "Supply a domain which is meaningful but wrong" (setq ad-return-value mail-host-address)) (setq message-user-fqdn mail-host-address) -- Barry Fishman